Salvation from...MICHAEL???

Wow, is this for real?

 

Oh dear

Wow is right!

.Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

 

Folks, we better get this one right, or the Jehovah's Witnesses will make look like fools when they throw those scriptures in our faces.

 

There is no question that the Michael, mentioned in Rev 12:7, refers to the Lord Jesus Christ. Who else has the power to ban and forbid entery into heaven? Does this mean Jesus is an angel? Hardly so! It is Jesus, the holy messenger of God the Father, doing the task at hand to defeat the evil one and his band of angels.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Are you really claiming that Michael is Jesus Christ based on the fact that Satan and his angles did not prevail against Michael?
This idea seems heritical to me.
MB

 

We get into trouble when we question what God really said.


Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


I appears that Michael and the Lord are not the same. Michael is a mighty angel.

 

The OT phrase "the angel of the Lord" is usually (and rightly IMO) taken as a reference to the pre-incarnate Christ. This could be something similar to that, although I disagree with it .

 

If you think me heretical with that view, then I go down with a lot of giants in the faith.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I don't know where you're getting the idea that someone named Michael is Christ, but Dan. 12:1 in the King James simply says: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people, and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time, and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found in the book."

There is an arch angel named Michael--whether that refers to him or not I don't know. The name given to Christ was Jesus--meaning Saviour.

 

Well I didn't say you were. I said that it seems heritical to me because, flatly the passage suggest nothing of the sort. Satan is an angle as well as is Michael. Michael is undoubtedly more powerful than Satan because if Michael fought Satan over this. God Him Self was on Michael's side. How could Michael loose? Just because Satan lost doesn't make Michael the Son of God. Jesus is the Word with out which there was nothing made from the very beginning. Michael is a creation Jesus is God and made everything that was made.

I'm amazed by angles I think they must be wonderful but I do not worship angles, I worship Jesus Christ. Even the angles on occasion have told other men not to bow down to them. Satan may have been a very powerful angle but when he turned he lost some of that power because he was no longer in God's favor.
MB

 

If you believe Jesus Is the Word as does most of Christianity then you cannot believe Jesus is Michael or was Michael because the Word created all there is. Jn1:1-3
MB

 

We can say that Jesus isnt an angel but rather God Himself who is over all creation.

So, is Michael not an angel but misunderstood to be? or is Jesus simply misunderstood to be Michael?

Jesus cant both be an angel and God while Im also having trouble refering to Jesus in the name of Michael right now, it doesnt seem right, but thats my opinion...

 

Jim, you are usually spot on in your theology, but I do think your view on this is a stretch. I understand your reasoning. And I understand that you're in some pretty powerful company. I just don't see it.

 

I don't see these commentators claiming that Michael is an angel that became Christ Jesus and thus made the Son of God. Therefore, they are not claiming salvation came through an angel.

I see these commentators saying that the name "Michael" is used to refer to the pre-incarnate Son of God; not an angel.

That the term "Archangel" refers to the role of the Son of God as leading the angels (i.e. He has authority over them); not refering to a more powerful angel (2nd only to God) who has authority over less powerful angels.

These people are not saying what the SDA are claiming they are saying, since it is very clear that each of the person's mentioned believed Jesus to be the eternal Son of God.

peace to youraying:

 

Michael is not Christ. There is no exceptable reason why Christ would be called Michael. Especially when Michael was more than an analogy in all other areas of scripture. There is no way to break that verse down and come up with Michael and Christ being one. And Michael can do what ever it is that God sends him to do.

 

I'm amazed by angles, too, though I was terrible at geometry!

MB, You spelled "angels" as "angles" throughout your post! :laugh:

 

I don't see how this can be. In Revelation 12:5 the woman gives birth to "a male child who is to rule all the nations." Clearly this is Jesus. So how can the Michael of Rev. 12:7 also be Jesus?

 

The archangel Michael was understood by the Jews to be the messenger of Jehovah, providing them protection. Without reading Jewish literature on biblical undestanding, I might have thought differently.

Rev 12:7ff speaks of a war in heaven, and Michael and his angels are victorious. Then comes verse 10 and we read, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ............and tey overcame him by the blood of the Lamb......" Plenty of evidence for my understanding, in my opinion. But each is entitled to their own understanding. I shall not object.

Cheers,

Jim