Salvation from...MICHAEL???

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Victorious, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. Victorious

    Victorious
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    I recently began a study on Seventh Day Adventism for an apologetics article and was quite surprised when I learned about the following. No, I do not believe Jesus is the Archangel Michael, but I was shocked to see that many men of God did! What about you? Can anyone give an explanation? It seems Calvin, Wesley, Matthew Henry, John Gill and even Charles H. Spurgeon interpreted Michael to be Jesus in some instances, or am I reading these incorrectly?

    "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince... God will send his angel to deliver it, whom he here calls Michael, meaning Christ, who is proclaimed by the preaching of the Gospel." - Geneva Study Bible: Da 12:1

    "I embrace the opinion of those who refer this (Michael) to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people." - John Calvin, COMMENTARIES ON THE BOOK OF THE PROPHET SANIEL, trans. T. Myers (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1979), vol. 2 p. 369.

    "The two passages in the New Testament, in which Michael is mentioned, serve to confirm the result already arrived at. That the Michael referred to in Rev. xii. 7 is no other than the Logos, has already been proved in my commentary upon that passage. Michael, that is, Christ Jesus (is) the head of angels." - Geneva Study Bible: Rev. xii. 7
    Daniel 12:1 :

    "The angel here notes two things: first that the Church will be in great affliction and trouble at Christ's coming, and next that God will send his angel to deliver it, whom he here calls Michael, meaning Christ, who is proclaimed by the preaching of the Gospel. "
    -Geneva Bible Translation

    "Jesus Christ shall appear as his church's patron and protector: At that time, when the persecution is at the hottest, Michael shall stand up, Dan_12:1. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Rev_1:5." -Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

    "The Archangel, who has all the angels of heaven under him, and at his command, the Son of God, is our Lord Jesus Christ." -John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

    "Michael: this we take to be Christ." --Matthew Poole's Commentary on the Holy Bible

    And in case there are Wesley fans snickering at the Calvin quotes:

    "...there will be yet a greater deliverance to the people of God, when Michael your prince, the Messiah shall appear for your salvation. A time of trouble... before the final judgment. The phrase at that time, probably includes all the time of Christ, from his first, to his last coming. Michael - Christ alone is the protector of his church, when all the princes of the earth desert or oppose it." -John Wesley: Chapter XII Commentary on Daniel

    And what exactly is Charles Haddon Spurgeon actually saying? I say it’s metaphorical, but it certainly could confuse the issue! :confused:

    “Let the Lord Jesus Christ be forever endeared to us . . . He it is whose camp is round about them that fear Him; He is the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon. All hail, Jesus! thou Angel of Jehovah's presence, to Thee this family offers its morning vows.” Morning and Evening Daily Readings, p. 556.

    I found the list on this SDA site:
    http://www.xanga.com/Vindication/649437175/item/
     
  2. JRG39402

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    Wow, is this for real?
     
  3. Beth

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    Oh dear

    Wow is right!

    .Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

    Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    Folks, we better get this one right, or the Jehovah's Witnesses will make look like fools when they throw those scriptures in our faces.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    There is no question that the Michael, mentioned in Rev 12:7, refers to the Lord Jesus Christ. Who else has the power to ban and forbid entery into heaven? Does this mean Jesus is an angel? Hardly so! It is Jesus, the holy messenger of God the Father, doing the task at hand to defeat the evil one and his band of angels.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. MB

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    Are you really claiming that Michael is Jesus Christ based on the fact that Satan and his angles did not prevail against Michael?
    This idea seems heritical to me.
    MB
     
  7. Amy.G

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    We get into trouble when we question what God really said.


    Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


    I appears that Michael and the Lord are not the same. Michael is a mighty angel.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    The OT phrase "the angel of the Lord" is usually (and rightly IMO) taken as a reference to the pre-incarnate Christ. This could be something similar to that, although I disagree with it .
     
  9. Jim1999

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    If you think me heretical with that view, then I go down with a lot of giants in the faith.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. Jon-Marc

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    I don't know where you're getting the idea that someone named Michael is Christ, but Dan. 12:1 in the King James simply says: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people, and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time, and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found in the book."

    There is an arch angel named Michael--whether that refers to him or not I don't know. The name given to Christ was Jesus--meaning Saviour.
     
  11. MB

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    Well I didn't say you were. I said that it seems heritical to me because, flatly the passage suggest nothing of the sort. Satan is an angle as well as is Michael. Michael is undoubtedly more powerful than Satan because if Michael fought Satan over this. God Him Self was on Michael's side. How could Michael loose? Just because Satan lost doesn't make Michael the Son of God. Jesus is the Word with out which there was nothing made from the very beginning. Michael is a creation Jesus is God and made everything that was made.

    I'm amazed by angles I think they must be wonderful but I do not worship angles, I worship Jesus Christ. Even the angles on occasion have told other men not to bow down to them. Satan may have been a very powerful angle but when he turned he lost some of that power because he was no longer in God's favor.
    MB
     
  12. MB

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    If you believe Jesus Is the Word as does most of Christianity then you cannot believe Jesus is Michael or was Michael because the Word created all there is. Jn1:1-3
    MB
     
    #12 MB, Feb 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2009
  13. zrs6v4

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    We can say that Jesus isnt an angel but rather God Himself who is over all creation.

    So, is Michael not an angel but misunderstood to be? or is Jesus simply misunderstood to be Michael?

    Jesus cant both be an angel and God while Im also having trouble refering to Jesus in the name of Michael right now, it doesnt seem right, but thats my opinion...
     
  14. Tom Butler

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    Jim, you are usually spot on in your theology, but I do think your view on this is a stretch. I understand your reasoning. And I understand that you're in some pretty powerful company. I just don't see it.
     
  15. canadyjd

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    I don't see these commentators claiming that Michael is an angel that became Christ Jesus and thus made the Son of God. Therefore, they are not claiming salvation came through an angel.

    I see these commentators saying that the name "Michael" is used to refer to the pre-incarnate Son of God; not an angel.

    That the term "Archangel" refers to the role of the Son of God as leading the angels (i.e. He has authority over them); not refering to a more powerful angel (2nd only to God) who has authority over less powerful angels.

    These people are not saying what the SDA are claiming they are saying, since it is very clear that each of the person's mentioned believed Jesus to be the eternal Son of God.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Michael is not Christ. There is no exceptable reason why Christ would be called Michael. Especially when Michael was more than an analogy in all other areas of scripture. There is no way to break that verse down and come up with Michael and Christ being one. And Michael can do what ever it is that God sends him to do.
     
  17. Marcia

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    I'm amazed by angles, too, though I was terrible at geometry!

    MB, You spelled "angels" as "angles" throughout your post! :laugh:
     
  18. Zenas

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    I don't see how this can be. In Revelation 12:5 the woman gives birth to "a male child who is to rule all the nations." Clearly this is Jesus. So how can the Michael of Rev. 12:7 also be Jesus?
     
  19. Jim1999

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    The archangel Michael was understood by the Jews to be the messenger of Jehovah, providing them protection. Without reading Jewish literature on biblical undestanding, I might have thought differently.

    Rev 12:7ff speaks of a war in heaven, and Michael and his angels are victorious. Then comes verse 10 and we read, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ............and tey overcame him by the blood of the Lamb......" Plenty of evidence for my understanding, in my opinion. But each is entitled to their own understanding. I shall not object.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  20. Victorious

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    I can see this information is as shocking to some of you as it is me! Even my husband was surprised (He has a Doctorate in Theology working on his Th.D!)

    Although I respect the great men of God that I quoted, I completely disagree with their conclusions about Jesus being Michael. I believe also that Spurgeon must have meant this metaphorically, since he called him the "true" Michael. It is easy to see how this could be misunderstood and used by SDAs and JWs as evidence for their doctrine.

    The rest, however, look like they truly believed Michael was just one of the names of Jesus. They are confusing the "Angel of the Lord" (which is Jesus - see Exodus 3:2) in the O.T. with the Archangel Michael.

    John Gill frequently quotes from rabbinical sources so we know that the Jewish rabbins did equate Michael with the Messiah at times. However, were they correct? How could they be when they didn't understand, or denied, the true nature of the Messiah? Did they get it right? No.

    Is Jesus the Archangel Michael? I vote absolutely not, but we can't deny that some of the greats thought he was. We have to go to scripture alone to refute this belief.

    Side note: I have studied apologetics for many years and this was news to me! :eek:
     

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