Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Mar 19, 2006.

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  1. OldRegular

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    Mortal people are supposedly born and die during the so-called millennial period. These mortal people coexist on earth with Saints in resurrected immortal bodies!

    When Jesus Christ came the first time He took upon Himself the form of man. Faith in Jesus Christ as God Incarnate and Savior was and is essential.

    If Jesus Christ returns to establish the so-called millennial kingdom He will return in the full Glory of the Godhead. Can mortal man look upon Jesus Christ in all His Glory and live?

    If Jesus Christ is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem in all the Glory of the Godhead for everyone to see what place does faith have?

    The dispensationalists claim that bloody sacrifices will be reinstituted in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. For what purpose?

    So I am curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?
     
  2. Me4Him

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    To the "Jews" the "Messiah" is just another "MAN". much like "Moses/Elijah", he's not "GOD IN THE FLESH", at least this is what they expect.

    Just as Peter saw only Jesus the man, but recognized "GOD" inside, Folks during the MK will see Jesus the man, but recognize him as "God".

    Mortal man can't "look" on the "FULL" glory of God, he would die instantly, but we can see Jesus the man and recognize God inside.

    Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

    9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

    When Jesus was "transfigured" he "plainly" showed them the "father" inside, a transfiguring that no sinner will ever see, even at the GWT they only see Jesus the man but recognize his as God, only the "PURE IN HEART" will be present when Jesus "PLAINLY" shows us the Father.

    Mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see (Jesus transfigured into) God.

    During the MK, the "Feast of Tabernacles", (living with God) will be kept each year, I haven't studied the other feast of the MK so I really can't give an "educated" answer,

    I do know that sacrifices under the OT only "purifying the FLESH" not the "soul/conscience".

    Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience

    Some will refuse to keep the feast of Tabernacles, but it won't rain on their crops.

    Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    Even with Jesus "lord over the whole Earth", some will still refuse to worship and Jesus won't force but will punish, the reason God doesn't "predestine", but let us "Chose".
     
  3. OldRegular

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    You do err not knowing Scriptue. In Revelation, Chapter 19, which describes the return of Jesus Christ prior to the so-called millennial reign we read:

    Revelation 19:11-21, KJV
    11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
    18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
    19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
    20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


    Now if the above is not a picture of Jesus Christ in the Glory of the Godhead what is it?

    In another picture of the return of Jesus Christ we read:

    Matthew 24:29, 30 KJV
    29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


    A few more for your edification.

    Matthew 16:27,28 KJV
    27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
    28. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


    Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    So I am still curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?

    Of course we musn't forget that wonderful passage from Hebrews:

    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    And I am still curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?
     
  4. OldRegular

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    To state that Jesus Christ will be seen only as a man at the Great White Throne Judgment is patently ridiculous. Scripture tells us:

    Revelation 20:11-15
    11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    Heaven and earth fled from the face of man. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    You might also keep in mind that the events described in the above passage occur at the end of the so-called millennial reign. Read verse 20;10. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So I am still curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?
     
  5. OldRegular

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    I thought that during the so-called millennial reign Jesus Christ would rule with a rod of iron?

    Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    So I am still curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom? :confused: :confused:
     
  6. Ed Edwards

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    OldRegular: //The dispensationalists claim that bloody sacrifices will be reinstituted in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. For what purpose?//

    Which dispensationalist?
    What is their argument and scripture.

    OldRegular: //So I am curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?//

    Your oft repeated question is A BAD QUESTION.
    First of all, you don't belive that the Bible teaches
    a 'millennial kingdom' but you want a Biblical answer.
    Well then obviously you ask a hypocritical question from
    your viewpoint. So isn't it even more hypocritical to
    repeat the question over and over.

    Here is I question I believe has a Biblical answer:
    How to people get saved NOW?

    (reacall also that some people, some preterists, beleive we
    are living in the millennial kingdom RIGHT NOW.
    So right up front you will know that whatever you answer
    my quesiton, I'll be right back at you with: "well
    that is how they get saved in the millennial kingdom.)
     
  7. Me4Him

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    OldRegular

    You don't keep things "IN CONTEXT" of scripture,

    Ex 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

    Mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for (ONLY) they shall see God.

    No "Earthly man" (Sinners) will ever see God the Father in his "FULLY GLORY" sitting on his throne, the "FLESH" would die instantly.

    The same Jesus who went away is the same Jesus coming back.

    Ac 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

    And this same Jesus is the one sitting on the throne, all judgement is committed to Jesus.

    Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    Everything must be kept in the "CONTEXT" of the "TRINITY", mortal man can look at Jesus and not die, but not at the "Father".
     
  8. Me4Him

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    I thought that during the so-called millennial reign Jesus Christ would rule with a rod of iron?

    Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    So I am still curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom? :confused: :confused:
    </font>[/QUOTE]No one can be saved apart from Jesus, but if they could rejected him when he was walking the earth two thousand years ago, talking with them "face to face", they can certainly do it again, as scripture pointed out.

    The "Iron rule" is over the course of the world, not men's souls, that's a "CHOICE" left to them, just as it was in Jesus "first coming".
     
  9. OldRegular

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    This Forum is composed of a large number of dispensationalists, perhaps a large majority. I ask a serious question which should be of paramount importance to these people, namely: How are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?

    Now whether I believe in an earthly millennial reign is not the issue. Dispensationalists should be able to answer the above question. So far no one has seriously attempted to do so. All they have done [and the all is ED ED and me4him] is perform an unbiblical dance around the other questions that I posed in the OP.

    So I ask again a very serious question: How are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?
     
  10. OldRegular

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    One dispensationalist who discusses the reinstitution of bloody sacrifices in Ezekiel's temple is John Walvoord in his book Major Bible Prophecies, page 396ff. He references the following passages: Ezekiel 44; Isaiah 56:7; Isaiah 66:22, 23; Jeremiah 33:18; Zechariah 14:16-21; and Malachi 3:3, 4.

    John Walvoord, by the way, served as president and professor of Systematic Theology at the Dallas Theological Seminary [the premier dispensational seminary] from 1952 until 1986.

    Ed ED whether I believe in the earthly millennial kingdom is irrelevant. If you believe in an earthly millennial kingdom with Jesus Christ sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem then you should be able to answer the question: How are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?

    John 3:16, KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Ephesians 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


    I don't understand the above ramblings. If you will clarify I will try to respond.
     
  11. npetreley

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    As far as I can see, the Bible doesn't answer this question. All it says is that at the end of the 1,000 years, satan is let loose and manages to rally a lot of people. I'm not sure that even relates to your question, but you'd have a hard time convincing me that the people satan rallies are saved.

    Can I ask, "What is the point of this question?"
     
  12. OldRegular

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    You are in disagreement with John Walvoord in his book Major bible Prophecies, page 394f. John Walvoord, by the way, served as president and professor of Systematic Theology at the Dallas Theological Seminary [the premier dispensational seminary] from 1952 until 1986.

    Walvoord writes, page 394f: "One of the outstanding features of the millennial kingdom will be Christ's reigning in Jerusalem and manifesting his glory visibly. ... In Psalm 72:19 the whole earth is declared to be filled with his glory. Inasmuch as Christ will manifest all the attributes of God, each of which forms a part of his glory, there will be a revelation of power and presence of God greater than in any previous dispensation."
     
  13. OldRegular

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    As far as I can see, the Bible doesn't answer this question. All it says is that at the end of the 1,000 years, satan is let loose and manages to rally a lot of people. I'm not sure that even relates to your question, but you'd have a hard time convincing me that the people satan rallies are saved.

    Can I ask, "What is the point of this question?"
    </font>[/QUOTE]Sure you can ask, "What is the point of this question?"

    Dispensationalists claim that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years. They also claim that people will be born and die during that 1000 year period. It is only natural that one wonders about the eternal destiny of these people. Now if dispensationalists really believe what they claim they do they should be able to answer the question: How are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?

    As noted both in the OP and the quotes from Walvoord above Jesus Christ will Come the Second Time in the full Glory of the Godhead. Scripture tells us that man cannot look upon the Glory of God and live.
     
  14. OldRegular

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    Given the rambling in the above post from four books of the Bible you should be embarassed to talk about context.

    Simply show me where I have taken any Scripture out of context and we can have a legitimate discussion about it.

    Mortal man could look upon Jesus Christ during His Incarnation and not die; but as noted in the OP and confirmed by Walvoord when Jesus Christ comes the Second Time He will return in the full Glory of the Godhead.

    Furthermore, as I recall Jesus Christ said : Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? [John 14:9]
     
  15. OldRegular

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    I am very disappointed. This Forum is composed of a large number of dispensationalists, perhaps a large majority. I ask a serious question which should be of paramount importance to these people, namely: How are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom? Yet none of these dispensationalists seem to be able to provide an answer.
     
  16. James_Newman

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    Are you worried that you might have to give the right answer on a test? Why would this be of paramount importance? But my 2 cents, for what its worth, people would be saved by believing on Jesus. Does this imply that there will be people living in the millennium with Christ reigning from the throne in Jerusalem who will not believe? Probably.
     
  17. Me4Him

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    Ex 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

    "NO FLESH", which represent sin, can walk up in the present of God the Father in his fully glory, they would die, instantly.

    God the Father, stays in heaven, only the "SON" will judge.

    And to "SEE" the Father in Jesus requires spiritual vision, which sinner don't have, this is why only the "pure in heart" will "SEE GOD" the Father.
     
  18. thjplgvp

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    Forgive me for interrupting this thread but I learned quite some time ago that two cannot walk together lest they be agreed. Why would I or another allow someone who does not agree with me to define my position since it is obvious that he does not agree with my position and since he has not my psychological makeup or faith he cannot or will not accept my position..

    Endless questions gender strife

    Philippians 2:3 let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

    James 3:13-16 who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

    Rather than be dogmatic in your question perhaps rewording it by asking ones thoughts of how one might exercise faith to salvation during the millennial kingdom would be more appropriate.

    To this question here is a thought. Jesus said that in heaven (could he have included heavenly kingdom as well?) we would neither give nor take in marriage but would be as the angels in heaven. This would mean that the saints have no children during the MK all children would spring from those left after the judgment of the nations. This would probably mean that they are all Jews (but not necessarily) since the 1000 year reign was promised to David and Israel.

    In Revelation 20:7-9 we read that at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ Satan is loosed and the ungodly (unsaved) that are deceived by Satan turn against the ‘camp of the saints’ and the ‘beloved city’ and both of these are located in one place for they have been compassed about.

    We know that faith cannot exist without believing and acting on that belief and since the MK is truly a reestablishment of the Old Testament economy it is likely (though no proof exists) that a call is issued to those who believe through out the kingdom and that those who faith and believe flock to the banner of Judah and those who do not believe ban together against Judah. This was done once before in Exodus 32:26 ff where those who choose not to respond to Moses’ call to faith died by a plague from God.

    As a dispensationalist I know that the Old Testament sacrifices did not take away sin but covered it, it was a picture of that which was to come. But in the MK the eternal sacrifice has already been made therefore no new sacrifice is needed only faith in your king who has already shed his blood for many. The blood has already been placed on the mercy seat in heaven by Jesus. The kingdom is a fulfilled promise to the Jews and salvation is not the issue as the Jews looked forward in the Old Testament they will look back during the MK.

    If one believes they flock to the banner of Judah thereby acting on their faith and that my friend is salvation by faith through grace.

    Thjplgvp
     
  19. Helen

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    Welcome to the board, Thipplegup (I have to pronounce that some way in my mind!). You have some points in there well worth thinking about!
     
  20. DeafPosttrib

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    Premill actual have problems about millennial kingdom teaching. It teaches, there will be repopulated the world again beyond Christ's coming or end of the age. Also, it teaches, there shall be salvation for survival trib saints to enter into millennial kingdom at Christ's coming beyond the end of the age.

    There is not a single verse in the Bible to prove them about repopulated & salvation in the millennium.

    Bible tells us very clear, there is no another second chance for a person to be repent or to enter the eternality kingdom follow at Christ's coming.

    Christ tells us of Matt. 24:37-41; and Luke 17:34-37, when Christ shall come again, the one shall be taken away, the one left. That mean, all unsaved shall be taken away for the judgment. There shall be no mortal person to enter into the eternality kingdom with Christ on new earth beyond Christ's coming.

    Matt. 25:1-12 telling of the picture there will be no other second chance for an individual to repent when once after Christ comes. It will be too late for them.

    Matt. 25:31-46 telling us, when Christ shall come with his angels, there shall be already set up apart all nations into two classes - sheep and goats on two sides. All goats(unbelievers) shall be cast away into everlasting fire - Matt. 25:41 & 46.

    There shall be no goat left remain on earth beyond the judgment day. All goats will be gone in the lake of fire.

    1 Cor. 15:50 tells us, no mortal shall enter into the kingdom. Obivously, only believers shall be changed into immortality body follow Christ's coming - 1 Cor. 15:51-54. Believers shal, enter into eternality kingdom with Christ on new earth. Very simple and plain.

    Also, Matt. 25:31-46 doesn't mentioned 'a thousand years'. Matt. 25:31-46 shows very clear picture of the future final one judgment day for all nations follow Christ's coming at the end of the age.

    You have to accept what Christ actual saying. Believe Him.

    There is NO repopulated the world beyond end of the age, NO salvation in the 'millennial' beyond the end of the age.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
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