Salvation is all about Grace > Faith > Obedience

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    The New American Standard Bible is widely recognized as being the most literal English translation.

    New American Standard Bible … John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
    but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

    The translators could have just regurgitated the “not believe” of John 3:18,
    but chose not to because IMO there was something in the Greek in John 3:36,
    which pointed to disobedience!


    New Living Translation … And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life.
    Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under
    God’s angry judgment.

    English Standard Version … Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life;
    whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

    Aramaic Bible … Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life,
    and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.

    American Stamdard Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
    but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    English Revised Version … He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;
    but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Weymouth NT … He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages;
    he who disobeys the Son will not enter into Life, but God's anger remains upon him.

    World English Bible … One who believes in the Son has eternal life,
    but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

    International Standard Version … The one who believes in the Son has eternal life,
    but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

    Orthodox Jewish Bible … The one with emunah in the Ben [HaElohim] has Chayyei Olam;
    but the one disobeying the Ben [HaElohim] will not see Chayyim, but the Charon Af Hashem
    remains on him.

    Tyndale NT … He that believeth on the son, hath everlasting life.
    And he that beloveth not the son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Many NT verses say those who love Jesus prove it by obedience to His commands!

    Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
    or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?

    Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest,
    but to those who did not obey?

    Hebrews 5:8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
    And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

    Matthew 19:17 But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

    Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God,
    walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

    John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
    John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.

    John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love,
    just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

    1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing,
    but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

    1 John 2:3-5 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar …

    1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

    1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

    2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.
    This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman,
    and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
    who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may
    have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

    .
     
  2. Gup20

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    Hbr 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
    13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
    14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
    6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
    2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
     
  3. steaver

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    Well, we understand that we are sinners. I asked you a few times if you would estimate how often you sin, once a year maybe, twice a year, once a week, once a day? But you never answer, why is that? If you are going to preach to us that a BAC must not sin or be damned to hell then you really need to tell us what a sinless BAC looks like. Otherwise, your "opinion" carries no weight.
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    So salvation based upon behaviour, not the grace of God then?
     
  5. evangelist-7

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    In the rarest of responses to el Y1 ... you got it, mate.

    The Qvestion of the Day ...
    How many hundreds of verses do BACs need to read to get the picture?

    Born-again today ... in hell tomorrow!
    Variety is the spice of life!
    Gee, what fun.

    .
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    So on what basis do you have assurance that you are now a Christian, how did God save you?
     
  7. evangelist-7

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    I must be having an incredibly wonderful day ... I'm actually answering Y1 again!

    A BAC who is "in Christ" at a certain point in time will have the witness to that fact by the Holy Spirit.

    But, if the BAC happens to be involved in habitual unrepented-of sin, he certainly will not have this witness.
    I.E. this BAC will not be in fellowship with the Holy Spirit.

    And if this is his condition at the time of his death, it's no heaven for him.
    This is what all of the Scripture warnings/threats are saying.

    Worse than that, Hebrews 10 says:
    If one once goes back to the "old man" situation above ... it's over, there's no returning!

    I thought all ex-Pentecostals knew this! ... Oh well, wrong again.

    .
     
    #7 evangelist-7, Jul 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
  8. BobRyan

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    And then you admitted that this is just a side trail - a bunny trail of diversion and has nothing to do whatsoever with exegesis - with study of the Bible and understanding the texts listed in the OP.

    I think that is more than a little "instructive".

    so then "back to the Word of God". Romans 8 coming up.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #8 BobRyan, Jul 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
  9. BobRyan

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    Romans 8 has an answer - but you wont like it.

    It comes right after this part -

    Romans 8
    4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. ...
    Sonship Through the Spirit

    12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
     
  10. steaver

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    Now there you go again for the third time making stuff up about me, why? I don't think making stuff up and putting words in my mouth is Christ like, in fact, I would say that it is a sin, "bearing a false witness", and according to your pov about Christian sin, it seems you are lost right now until you confess this before God, and in this situation, you would need to confess it to me as well since we have the commandment to confess our sins one to another.

    NOW that is what I said :thumbs:

    oops! back to bearing a false witness. Hope you confess before you die and go to hell.
     
  11. steaver

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    Yes, you keep repeating this "opinion" but you will not explain to us what "habitual sin" is. Is it sinning once a day, twice a day, once a week, once a month? It would be most instructive if you could define "habitual" for us, possibly focusing on your own life could be very helpful. How often do you sin E-7?
     
  12. BobRyan

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    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=87398&page=6

    [FONT=&quot]



    Since you admit that this is a nonsense question that has nothing at all to do with your exegesis of Romans 6 or 1 John 2, or 1John 3... what is the point?

    Did you run out of things to post??
    [/FONT]


    It is not at all clear that you did not admit that your game has nothing to do with the Bible study - the exegesis needed to focus on the texts at hand.

    Odd how you choose to deny that now.

    The facts above - speak for themselves.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #12 BobRyan, Jul 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
  13. steaver

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    Brother, I don't think you understand the seriousness of your situation right now. This is the fourth time now you bear a false witness against me. According to your own agreement with E-7 on this subject of Christians going to hell for unconfessed sins, you are as of now living with unconfessed sin and thus unsaved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I asked you how often you sin, and here you have sinned four times in less than an hour! Is this what you call "habitual"?
     
  14. BobRyan

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    That dodge comes up in response to this list of text - quoted by you --

    When you posted this

    ================

    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    Matt 18 Christ explains it as "Forgiveness revoked".

    In Romans 11 we see that those who stand only by their faith should "fear for if He did not spare them NEITHER will he spare you".

    In 1Cor 6 "do not be deceived" is the message to the saints - the church at Corinth. And then Paul tells them who it is that does not go to heaven.

    James 2 - we are told that we should live as those who ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty.

    In 1John 2:3-6 the one who claims to know Christ and DOES NOT keep His Commandments, does not "walk as He walked" - is lying.

    What part of this is up to E-7 to explain how often he sins - before we do our own exegesis??

    ==========================

    Apparently you are resorting to that "game" because you have no solution for OSAS - surviving these texts? Perhaps you find it to be a rewarding rabbit trail diversion.

    But I think it begs the question as to how OSAS will be spared those text - other than by gamesmanship.

    Surely there is another solution.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #14 BobRyan, Jul 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
  15. steaver

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    It is good that you have reworded your arguments as not to bear a false witness declaring I admitted to gaming or rabbit trailing for these are solely your opinions.

    But this does not justify you before God brother (according to your pov). I counted five times you bear a false witness against me, sinning against God and me. As of right now you are unsaved! Please, if you are correct in your doctrine, you must confess and repent. Five times, and the exact same sin, I would think that might be what E-7 is calling "habitual sin" and if so you are hell bound! (At least according to you) :praying:
     
  16. evangelist-7

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    I'd say the Steaver continues to make it blatantly obvious that he follows numero uno.
    Thus, Roberto, you're wasting your time.

    .
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    Define habitual sinning, would you say that a real christian cannot have sin areas issues, some that might take longer to deal with?

    IF a person was say having trouble with anger, still dealing with it, and cursed out someone and had a heart attack and died, have they forfeited salvation?
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    You fail to rrealise JUST HOW Holy God is, as ANY sin damns you before Him, andall of my sins have ben paid in full by Jesus!
     
  19. steaver

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    Hey your back! Great! Now Bob and I have been having a discussion about my question to you and I have shown that my question is in direct response to your preaching that a Born Again Christian who sins will go to hell if they die without confession or repentance of that sin. You have put forth this thing called "habitual sin", could you explain for us what this is? Is it like BobRyan bearing a false witness five times within an hour or something like that? (Which btw, he has not confessed yet, which by your statement means he is hell bound as of now) If you could just give us a testimony of how your life is as holy as Jesus is and what that means in relationship to sinning here or there, or "habitual" as you say. Is habitual once a year, twice a year, twice a month, twice a day? Maybe you could tell us how often you sin, since I gather you believe your own sinning is not habitual, so maybe we could look to your level of sinning to get an idea of what habitual sin is.
     
  20. BobRyan

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    This little rabbit trail of Steaver was solved already --

    It went something like this.


    1 John 2
    [FONT=&quot]1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

    [/FONT]

    1John 2:4-5 Commandments of Christ -- Word of Christ – Love of God

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.



    I Jn 5:2-3
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


    1 John 3
    [FONT=&quot]3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
    4
    Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
    5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
    6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
    7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
    8 the
    one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
    9
    No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    10
    By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious:anyone who does not practice righteousness
    is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

    You see E-7 - If you just quote the Bible then the game of pretending that you are the source of this information - does not get "Played". And only in playing that sort of game -- do you get those trifles about "how often do you sin" - because you have opened the door for the rabbit trail of "going after you" - the one posting - instead of everyone just reading the Bible and doing some basic exegesis. After ALL God is the Author of scripture and who really want to "go after God" with that sort of game that is being played here.

    in Christ,

    Bob
    [/FONT]
     
    #20 BobRyan, Jul 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2013

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