Salvation, Of God or of Man

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by OldRegular, Jan 11, 2006.

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Salvation, Of God or of Man

  1. Notwithstanding the posted Scripture God could not have saved me without my help.

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  2. Salvation is the work of the Triune God alone.

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    0.0%
  1. OldRegular

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    The sovereignty of God in the salvation of His chosen ones is demonstrated in the following Scripture.

    Romans 8:28-30, KJV
    28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
    29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


    Ephesians 1:3-7, KJV
    3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


    Ephesians 2:1-8, KJV
    1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    Talk about loaded answers... :rolleyes:
     
  3. OldRegular

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    They reflect the two major doctrines discussed on this Forum. [​IMG]
     
  4. Hope of Glory

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    Too bad the correct answer wasn't listed.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Enlighten us poor misguided souls! :D
     
  6. LadyEagle

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    Titus 3:[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
     
  7. Linda64

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    But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)

    And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Romans 11:6)
     
  8. Linda64

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    Making a decision to believe on Christ is not a work. No decision is a decision. We make decisions everyday--you will even make a decision whether or not to answer this post!!

    Don't overload your thinking capabilites!! [​IMG]
     
  9. OldRegular

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    Are you saying: Notwithstanding the posted Scripture God could not have saved me without my help?
     
  10. Bro. James Reed

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    Exactly, OR.

    That's why I find it rather amusing, or maybe sad, that they say they believe in salvation by grace, BUT you must believe.

    That's like saying, I believe that we get cavities, but we must accept them in order to have them.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. donnA

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    I'm never sure what people think the bible means when it says we are dead in our sin before Christ. When's the last time you saw a dead man make a decision to do something.
     
  13. Linda64

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    Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. (Proverbs 26:4-5)

    It is a total waste of time to argue with you. Your poll questions are ambiguous. I will not be voting in this poll for that reason. God is sovereign--man is accountable. God's sovereignty is NOT limited by man's decisions. If man's decisions limited God's sovereignty, God would not be sovereign. We do not HELP God in our salvation. (Eph.2:8-9). Salvation is a gift. We do not WORK for a gift, but we can CHOOSE to accept it or reject it--that is NOT a work.
     
  14. Bro. James Reed

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    If you must accept it in order for it to be a gift, then it wasn't a gift to begin with.
     
  15. donnA

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    Some seem to think of work compared with going to work everyday, not so in scripture, it is anything we do, obey the law for instance was work, not a job, not an actual thing to go out and do, work is anything you do to get something, such as salvation. Jesus did it all, we do nothing, anything we can or could do would be in assistance to Him because He needed our help to save us. Not true, if God is in complete control, then we do nothing to participate in our salvation. By saying we do anything to participate in our salvation denies God is in complete control of the universe. Which means, theres no choice to be made, or God isn't in control at all.
    It's more a questioning of who and what God is. And many reflect an unbeleif in His ability to be in control of His created iniverse.
     
  16. Linda64

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    Bro. James Reed:

    You obviously have never received a gift, have you? In order for something to be a gift, it had to have been given by somebody. A gift is only a gift if it is received from the giver. Read the following definition of "gift". Your statement makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.


    From Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

    gift


    GIFT, n. from give. A present; any thing given or bestowed; any thing, the property of which is voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation; a donation. It is applicable to any thing movable or immovable.

    1. The act of giving or conferring.

    2. The right or power of giving or bestowing. The prince has the gift of many lucrative offices.

    3. An offering or oblation.

    If thou bring thy gift to the altar. Matt.5.

    4. A reward.

    Let thy gifts be to thyself. Dan.5.

    5. A bribe; any thing given to corrupt the judgment.

    Neither take a gift; for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise. Deut.16.

    6. Power; faculty; some quality or endowment conferred by the author of our nature; as the gift of wit; the gift of ridicule.

    GIFT, v.t. To endow with any power or faculty.


    BTW--salvation is a GIFT --God is the GIVER--have you received that GIFT?
     
  17. Bro. James Reed

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    You got me. I have never received a gift in my entire life. :rolleyes:

    btw, I take offense at your asking me if I have received that gift. Are you implying that I am not, as so many here like to put it, saved?

    If so, I believe that is a violation of one of the posting rules of the BB, if I am not mistaken.

    Your own definitions prove my point.

    Show me in any one of them where it says the gift is only a gift if you take it.

    Here is the definition of work, from Webster's

    1 a : to exert oneself physically or mentally especially in sustained effort for a purpose or under compulsion or necessity b : to perform or carry through a task requiring sustained effort or continuous repeated operations &lt;worked all day over a hot stove&gt; c : to perform work or fulfill duties regularly for wages or salary
    2 : to function or operate according to plan or design &lt;hinges work better with oil&gt;
    3 : to exert an influence or tendency
    4 : to produce a desired effect or result : SUCCEED
    5 a : to make way slowly and with difficulty : move or progress laboriously &lt;worked up to the presidency&gt; b : to sail to windward
    6 : to permit of being worked : react in a specified way to being worked &lt;this wood works easily&gt;
    7 a : to be in agitation or restless motion b : FERMENT 1 c : to move slightly in relation to another part d : to get into a specified condition by slow or imperceptible movements &lt;the knot worked loose&gt;
    - work on 1 : AFFECT &lt;worked on my sympathies&gt; 2 : to strive to influence or persuade
    - work upon : to have effect upon : operate on : INFLUENCE


    Notice how it continually says that anything whatsoever done with purpose is work? If I have to raise my pinky finger, it is work. If I have to give thought to something, it is work. If I have to perform the action, mentally in this case, of accepting something, it is work.

    No matter how you try, you can not get around this point.

    If a gift is given freely, then whether I accept the gift or pick it up or take it with me, it is still a gift and it still belongs to me.

    If you place the condition of acceptance on the free gift of grace, then it is not a free gift of grace because it is dependent on your acceptance of it. It has become conditional.

    As donna pointed out, a dead person, spiritually speaking in this case, has no ability to accept or reject anything.

    When you were given the gift of natural life, was it only on the condition that you accept it? If not, then wouldn't it stand to reason that your spiritual life or birth was based on the same principle?

    I just don't see how you can get around this.
     
  18. Linda64

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    That was not what I was implying--I was simply trying to make it clear that in order to call a gift a gift, there needs to be a GIVER and a RECEIVER. That last comment was NOT directed at you personally--it was a general statement--I am sorry if you misunderstood.
     
  19. Bro. James Reed

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    I apologize for taking it the wrong way.
     
  20. Bro. James Reed

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    btw, there is a Giver. His name is God.
     

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