Salvation of the Soul (purchased possession)

Having said that -- as obvious as it was --

Matt 18 "Forgiveness revoked" for the PERSON
John 15 Cast out of the vine of Christ and burned in the fire --
Romans 11 REMOVED as a branch from Christ exactly as the lost Jews.

Romans 6 the "reward" for evil deeds is the second death.

2Cor 5:10 we must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ - to be judged according to deeds DONE IN THE BODY (i.e. deeds of the PERSON) whether they be good OR evil.

These texts are NOT about "less candy in heaven" as J. Jump points out.

These are all J Jump's texts - the part where he does have truth in his argument.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The person who is the soul and the person who is the spirit are not two different persons. It is one Person -- and a person CAN NOT be BOTH lost AND saved!

There is no text in all of scripture saying "soul lost BUT SPIRIT SAVED".

There is no text in all of scripture saying "spirit lost BUT SOUL SAVED".

There is no text in all of scripture saying that you can divide the soul and spirit as to different people - they are ONE person. No "body sharing".

The PERSON thinks. The PERSON will go to heaven or hell.

This is incredibly easy to read in scripture. "WHOSOEVER WILL" is not a reference to "just the spirit".

And that is Steaver's side - that has truth in it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The stalemate comes when neither side will admit to the other side's clear point of truth -- that part of the argument that CAN be sustained by the Bible.

In Christ,

Bob

 

As it turns out - I have gone a few rounds with Jump and when James 2 "Can that faith save him", and Matt 7 "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord shall enter but he who DOES the will of the Father" and Romans 2 and John 15 and Romans 11 are brought up Jump consistently comes back with "saved means having a part in the millennial kingdom in ADDITION to heaven" and LOST means just going to heaven and living with Christ forever in eternal bliss.

I am simply pointing out that Jump has found this as a "solution" to clinging to OSAS EVEN though texts like Matt 18 "forgiveness revoked" show that OSAS is a false doctrine.

With Jump's solution - he at least can allow himself to LOOK at those texts and talk about them as true applicable to all just as they say they are -- while everyone else must ignore them. Jump for some reason - does not hold your feet to the fire on that one. With Jump's solution the reader is allowed to "admit" that these texts point to something far more devastating than "less candy in heaven" for the lost.

But the problem with that is that Jump's solution is inventing a doctrine of soul-lost while spirit-still-saved and you keep pointing that out so Jump is always on the defensive.

It is easy to see it reading the post exchanges.

In Christ,

Bob

 

And it is clear that Christ died to save lost souls from sin. Your argument is to claim that since Christ has come to seek and save the lost - they must be in an OSAS condition no matter what the Bible says to the contrary in Matt 18, John 15, Romans 11, Romans 2, James 2...etc.

And you have the freedom to make that kind of claim since Jump also holds to the false teaching of OSAS. That put's Jump into the position of having to deny salvation for the soul to still cling to the false teaching of OSAS (which I suppose he may choose to do at some point instead of just taking the obvious course and dumping the man-made OSAS in favor of scripture.)

My argument is that if he is willing to dump OSAS then he is also in a good position to dump his "soul lost while spirit saved" solution for fencing off OSAS away from the texts that disprove it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Now Bob you know you are lying when you say that I haven't given you Scripture. We spent some time going back and forth through PM. The TRUTH of the matter is is that Scripture has been given and you just don't agree with it. But it is flatly false to say I have not give "you" Scripture.

So please quit with these false accusations. They are very unbecoming and do little for the conversation at all.

Now as to your one person argument. Let me see a passage of Scripture that says a person is a singular being that is only lost or saved. I haven't seen that one can you please provide it?

 

Boy isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.

 

Because not everyone wants to be held accountable. Everyone wants the "easy" way to everything. They want to believe in Christ as Savior without having to make Him Lord of their lives and with your doctrine and others that is exactly what you have a Savior without a Lord and yet you still get to enjoy all that the 1,000-year reign of Christ and eternity has to offer.

Why would someone want the costly road of discipleship when they can have the free road of nothingness and still get everything the disciples get?

That's not hard to figure out at all.

 

Now you reprimanded Lacy for not quoting you exactly, but yet you want to say this about me. That is not exactly true. I said there is NO POINT in answering your questions, because your questions are based on a false conclusion from Scripture. You took a single text of Scripture and tried to base your doctrine on it. And you took it out of context to boot.

So it's not that I didn't want to answer your questions, it was the fact that your questions are moot because your foundation is flawed. There is NO NEED to answer your questions.

 

Bob your arguments that OSAS is a man-made doctrine are so weak it's pathetic. One verse of Scripture alone completely wipes out "your" entire theory. If you understood Ephesians 2:8-9 you would stop with the nonsense of your works-based salvation.

 

So then what happens to a disobedient, unfaithful, non-overcoming Christian in your view? Talk about a simple question. If I don't live a victorious life that produces no fruit, what happens to me?

What part of there is NO POINT in answering your questions to you not get. It is a WASTE OF TIME. Your questions are based on Truth. They are based on your preconceived notion, so answering your questions would add nothing to the discussion.

See you again, like you did with the James text, want to start talking about first, second and third base before you ever hit the ball and are able to run out of the batter's box.

Until we can agree on the foundation there is no point in moving forward. It's pointless.

 

The argument against the false doctrine of OSAS is NOT that "salvation does not exist" so a reference to Eph 2 does nothing to sustain the "salient point" of OSAS which is not simply saved by "ALWAYS saved no matter how rebellious" (in one of the OSAS flavors).

Key to debunking OSAS is simply to admit that Matt 18 and Romans 11 exist!

in Christ,

Bob

 

And as predicted J.Jum responds with "yet another no-text" post.

But further adding to JJ's problem - you are now "arguing from the void" of what scripture does NOT say to make your case INSTEAD of coming up with a text that says "soul LOST while spirit SAVED" which IS the salient piont of your own argument. Your argument from the void is like arguing "when a lost person happens to own a dog - that dog is always saved bound for heaven in place of its master. Don't believe me? Show me a text saying it is NOT true."

By contrast to those "arguments from the void" WE DO show texts where the person IS lost - but we find NONE saying "SAVED WHILE LOST" so you simply make it up.

That is impossible to gloss over.

In Christ,

Bob