Salvation Question....

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ShotGunWillie, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie
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    If I believed that baptism was more than symbolic but was an essential portion of salvation because Christ commanded us to belief in Him and be baptized. Do I have salvation?
     
  2. TCGreek

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    Faith in Christ is what saves a person, not water baptism.
     
  3. thegospelgeek

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    According to Paul, if my faith lies in something other than Christ, such as the law, baptism, works, etc It is wortless. So my answer would be

    No, such a person would not have salvation.


     
  4. ShotGunWillie

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    I am not saying that salvation relies completely upon baptism, but faith in Christ, but with an addition of baptism.

    So would that person be saved if they had a belief in Christ, but put more stock in baptism than usually accepted
     
  5. donnA

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    No one ever saved themselves by getting wet.
     
  6. ShotGunWillie

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    I am not saying that.
     
  7. TCGreek

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    It's either a person is saved with or without water baptism.
     
  8. thegospelgeek

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    Is the faith in Christ or is it in baptism (circumcision, law,works)? Is Christ able to save? or does he need help from the baptism? Does his blood wash our sins away? or does the water?
     
  9. Aaron

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    Does he confess that Jesus is Lord and believe in his heart that God raised Him from the dead? Then he is saved despite erroneous notions he may entertain at the moment.

    But does he really believe there is some power in the water, or does he simply confess that baptism is non-optional? Usually those who harp on the symbolic nature of the act present the ordinances as optional observances. "You may be baptized if you wish, but it isn't required."
     
  10. tinytim

    tinytim
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    If I have a white shirt that gets mud on it...

    I want it clean.

    So I put it in the Washing machine..

    I add Hot water...

    Detergent

    And Bleach..

    NOW if I TRUST that the hot water alone will get my stain out, then why would I add detergent and bleach?

    The fact that I added the other 2 means that I don't TRUST the hot water.... to clean my shirt.

    NOW... let's say I add Fabric Softener also.. does it mean I am TRUSTing in it to clean my shirt? NO.. it is added so my shirt will be soft...

    So let's apply this...

    IF a person doesn't TRUST christ alone for his salvation, but wants to add Water to make himself clean.. that person doesn't have saving faith...

    But like Aaron hinted at... a person only has to TRUST Christ for salvation. and BAM.. they are saved... Now if they are taught later that Baptism is essential that doesn't make their salvation void.

    This hits home to me... I have often worried about my grandmother.
    She believed and spoke that Baptism was essential for salvation.

    IF she trusted the fact that she was baptized in order to secure her salvation.. she may be in Hell...

    But if she trusted Christ, and Christ alone.. but was taught a bad doctrine later, she is in Heaven.

    It all depends on the individual... It is possible for someone to believe that baptism is essential and be saved because when they first believed, they called on Jesus to save them.. and put their TOTAL trust in him.
     
  11. Aaron

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    I just want to clarify my position. Someone may erroneously believe that the act of baptism somehow contributed to his salvation at the time of his conversion, and still be saved.
     
  12. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Sorry Aaron, I misunderstood your post... I disagree.

    Adding anything to the finished work of calvary is not salvation.

    Either a person trusts Christ alone.. or not.
    If they trust in anything they do or don't do.. they will go to Hell.
     
  13. canadyjd

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    Essentially, you are asking how much theology or doctrine must someone understand (and/or accept and/or reject) at the time they are saved, in order to be saved.

    The argument becomes either:

    1. That Holy Spirit would not draw them to salvation by faith in Jesus without first correcting their misunderstanding of water baptism.

    If that is true, then you would expect Holy Spirit to correct all their misunderstandings or plain ignorance of essential doctrine at the time of conversion. That gives very little room for spiritual maturing on the part of the believer.

    2. That Holy Spirit can and does bring people to salvation despite their misunderstandings and ignorance of doctrine.

    If that is true, you would expect people to learn and grow in their faith, setting aside false doctrine as Holy Spirit convicts and illumines the truth through scripture.

    I favor #2.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #13 canadyjd, Feb 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2009
  14. Berean

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    Whats the differance in this and a person being called and convicted by the Holy Spirit receiving Christ and believing that they "have to be good" to receive salvation?
     
  15. thegospelgeek

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    Same thing. Nothing different.
     
  16. donnA

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    If your say baptism is necessary for salvation then yes are saying that.
     
  17. Marcia

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    If you believed this about baptism in the past but no longer believe it and have realized it is only Christ who saves and that the baptism was not necessary for salvation, I think you are saved. What counts is what you believe now - if you believe in Christ alone for salvation now, you are saved.
     
  18. canadyjd

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    What's the difference between believing you "have to be good" to recieve salvation and believing "you have to know water baptism doesn't save you" to recieve salvation?

    Both place the emphasis on what the person understands prior to salvation and not on what God is doing according to His grace and mercy to bring about salvation.

    Since I believe scripture teaches salvation is a gift of God, according to His grace and by the power of Holy Spirit, then I believe a person can be saved and be ignorant of (or be in error concerning) theology and doctrine.

    Some seem to be saying that Holy Spirit will not save someone until/unless they understand that water baptism is not necessary for salvation. I believe Holy Spirit can convince them of that truth after they are saved.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  19. Allan

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    Point of fact, salvation is not about you 'doing' (works, ie. baptism, doing good deeds, ect..) something in order to recieve it. A person can not be saved under a false gospel. When the gospel message they preach says faith is not enough then you have a gospel not of scripture. When the emphasis OF salvation is ON your works then you have a False message pretending tobe the gospel.

    Paul spoke extremly against such works based view of salvation in the book of Galatians. Why, becuase the person has the wrong understanding OF salvation thus they are not depending on the work of God but their physical works in conjuction with Gods that they might be saved

    So it comes down to this.. If I believe in Christ properly or biblically (which saves) but don't get baptised then in their eyes I am not saved. IOW - your salvation is dependant upon you being baptised and not he work of Christ alone and faith alone.
     
  20. Steven2006

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    I have heard people mention that they felt more comfortable that they had been baptized, not because they believed they needed to but just in case they were wrong. How would that fall? They didn't believe anything other than faith alone, but were not very mature. One could say they were weak in faith and knowledge, I would say they are saved, but are only on milk and need to graduate to meat.
     

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