Salvation question

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Judith, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. Judith

    Judith
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    I have a question. In Hebrews 11:1 the KJV reads;
    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen


    The NIV reads;
    Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.


    The EVS reads;
    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.


    And the NASB reads;
    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.


    My focus is on the two Greek words "hypostasis" which is translated substance, confidence, and assurance. And the second Greek word "elegchos" translated evidence, assurance, and conviction.


    So my question is can someone be saved who is not sure if God is real? I ask this because I actually have a friend who is in this situation. He claims to be a Christian seeks to live as one, but does not attend a church, and claims to be saved and will talk about God and Jesus and living for the Lord and so on.

    He was raised in a very strong,legalistic Christian home, Although they are Pentecostal parents, however he is not totally sure that God is real. It seems that he has more of a hope He is real or I think He is real than assurance and that he is going with that hope. He does not battle against the reality but he is unsure about the reality.

    So Can this kind of a person really be a born again Christian? Can a person really repent to God Whom they are not sure (positive) is there. Can a person really come to faith (trust) Jesus who they are not sure (positive) is there?


    I have absolutely no question of God being real and Jesus coming and paying my price. . In fact I can say like Paul I know (not hope or think) in Whom I believe 2Tim 1:12. So can someone who cannot say I know in Whom I believe really be saved based on Hebrews 11:1?
     
  2. Servent

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    In order to be saved one has to repent of their sins turn to Christ alone. John 14:6 who do you turn to if you do not believe that Christ is who He say's He is.
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    How can one believe in that which they cannot say for sure is real?
     
  4. tyndale1946

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    He was raised in a very strong,legalistic Christian home... I believe that right here is the key to his unbelief in God. To me he see a God of judgement and that is all he sees. My wife was also raised in a legalistic Christian home and she also believed that for along time not knowing the God of love and grace. God is the only one that can turn him around and the time will come as it is only God that can change his heart. Legalism and grace cannot co-exist together... The work is all of Christ and his alone!... Brother Glen
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Thats correct...but he could be backsliding. Something traumatic could have led him to question. Now he isnt walking the talk so he has been shaken to the core. I wouldnt be worried though, God is there & He knows & He will prevail. If this man is one of Gods Elect, then NO WORRIES. He will be looked after.
     
  6. Judith

    Judith
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    The bible never says we repent of sin to be saved. That is a false works doctrine of men. Repentance of sin is the fruit/result of slavation not the avenue to it. You did not answer the question.
     
  7. Judith

    Judith
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    There is no such thing as a backslider in the NT. That is an OT term for Israel which us used to proclaim them to be lost, not saved and faultering in their walk.
     
  8. Judith

    Judith
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    Yes I agree, but I am reminded of the passage that says, "I believe, help my unbelief. I think the problem is faith verses belief.
     
  9. Van

    Van
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    The answer is no. Jesus said we must believe in the One who sent Him in order to believe in Him, John 12:44
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    You cannot separate those two nor pit them against one another.
     
  11. Buckeye Baptist

    Buckeye Baptist
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    Jesus began his ministry with the words "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Why do you suppose he said this? Also, Peter says in 2 Peter 3:9 that the Lord is longsuffering and patient, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If repentance does not precede salvation, then what is God "longsuffering" for?
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    I think you misjudge what is meant by repentance of sin. When that is said in reference to salvation it is never intended to suggest that we need to clean up our lives first and then come to God.

    However, what is mean by that is that we do recognize that we are sinners and agree that living a life against God is no longer acceptable. We agree that we are no longer going to perform such things as that which Christ was beaten and died for that we may be saved from their penalty.

    Understanding that we are sinners and that such behavior is not acceptable to God is not a work.
     
  13. Servent

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    Luke 13:3 & 5 Lest you repent you shall likewise parish. Read it however you want to, I repented!
     
  14. Judith

    Judith
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    I don't think it is pitting one against the other. I can believe something but not act on it. Faith is the acting on what is believed. If I only believe as in hope but not have assurance I can never repent or have faith.
     
  15. Judith

    Judith
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    Based on the Hebrew passage I do think one has to be assured that God is to be saved.
     
  16. Judith

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    I never said what you said. You are adding to me and scripture.
     
  17. Judith

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    Again the bible does not say to repent of sin for salvation. You are adding to scripture saying we must repent of sin regardless how you explain it.
     
  18. Judith

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    I did not say you do not have to repent.
     
  19. Van

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    Not sure if you are drawing a distinction between believing in God and being "assured" God is real. I see no distinction, to believe in God requires, to my mind, the belief that God is real.

    John 12:44 says, "And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me."

    God knows our heart, our innermost convictions and beliefs. He is the one who decides whether our belief meets His requirements, He is the one who credits our faith as righteousness or not.

    In Matthew 7 we see folks, like your friend, who engaged in ministry and claimed Jesus as Lord. But Jesus said, I never knew you, meaning their faith was not credited as righteousness and God therefore did not put them spiritually in Christ.

    Now I understand my belief in God is based on faith and not on compelling external evidence. But I believe when I die I will go to be present with the Lord, and that assurance of the sure and certain resurrection is rock solid. I am a really simple guy, Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so.
     
    #19 Van, Jul 13, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
  20. Revmitchell

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    No mam, I do not mean to be argumentative but faith is the confidence to act it is not the action itself. I am not "faithing" by sitting is a chair. Faith in the fact that the chair will hold me is what leads me to act and sit in the chair.
     

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