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Salvation!!!

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ONENESS, Mar 11, 2003.

  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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  2. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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  3. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    Golleee...Three Mom, I don't even know what you were losing
    your breakfast over. I can't keep all this straight......you each
    have a grouping of doctrines that you follow/beleive.

    Course I have my own too....don't I ? ;)

    Here's some more confusion... take note that I was raised in the CCC.
    (Christian Convention Church) that actually claims no name.

    The following are quotes from members of each sect :

    (Catholic)
    A Catholic can happily assert that I was saved, I am being saved,
    and I will be saved. It is not necessary to try to convince ourselves
    that we are saved in order to feel assured about it.

    (CCC) *Singer grew up in this*
    In my experience, the teaching was no one is saved until one dies in the
    Christian Convention Church, and then it is still only a maybe.

    (Catholic)
    The thief on the cross beside Jesus participated in this landmark
    event, and I think it is risky to try to apply this single situation to
    all believers who were simply not there, especially when
    the context of Scripture shows conclusively (in my opinion,
    of course) that our works (which are achieved through Christ,
    not of our own merits) can justify us (make us holy). That is
    why I listed John 14:15, John 14:21, and Matthew 19:16-17
    as examples of Jesus' own words telling us that there are things we
    must DO, specifically in the context of "being saved".

    (Catholic)
    Catholics view salvation as an ongoing process, not a one-time
    event.

    (CCC)
    Only God knows the end result and final judgement. And if we
    continually faithfully salvation is assured. I believe that salvation
    starts now. But the friends don't go around saying I am saved, just
    like we don't go around saying I am a christian or I am born again.
    We believe you should be able to tell by our spirit and our life. It is
    not a good sign if you have to advertise these things with your mouth.

    (CCC)

    I believe that when one accepts Jesus Christ as their personal
    Saviour, and keeps His commandments, and is Born Again,
    and receives the Holy Spirit, and continues in the teachings of
    the Lord, and in prayer and is alive spiritually, that such a one is
    truly saved, as long as they keep the spiritual life alive.

    (Catholic)
    A Catholic can happily assert that I was saved, I am being saved,
    and I will be saved. It is not necessary to try to convince ourselves
    that we are saved in order to feel assured about it.

    _____________________________________________________

    See how other denominations view salvation.
    See how confusing it becomes when one goes beyond "Whosoever" ?

    See why I want to stick to St John 11:26 "And whosoever liveth
    and believes in me shall never die. Believest thou this ?"


    NEVER DIE to me means no purgatory, no soul sleep, no
    loss of consciousness. Amen, Thank you Jesus.

    Singer
     
  4. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    Carol:

    You said:
    "Thanks Singer! Hey are you related to Kenny Rogers?
    You need to post that on the board.


    No relation to Kenny but I've heard that before.
    Nowhere near the charm or the status or the wealth or.......j

    BUT I BELIEVE IN JESUS.

    [​IMG]

    Zinger

    p.s. My second cousin's brother-in-law was Waylon Jennings...
    That count ? LoL [​IMG]
     
  5. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    Nope, doesn't count!

    While I've got your attention, ahhhh....and you live out west, have you ever heard of Clyde Lott? He is a rancher, I guess you would call him one.

    He raises Red Heifers. I think he is from Mississippi.

    Israel is or has bought them from him in order to breed a "perfect" calf/cow. The Rabbi's name is Chaim Richman of Jerusalem. He is the one that Clyde Lott is dealing with, about the purchasing of the cows. You can read about the "Red Heifer" in 19th chapter of Numbers.

    Also, you can read all about Clyde Lott/Rabbi Chaim Richman, and the Red Heifer on google.com.

    Clyde Lott, as well as the Rabbi, was at our church several years ago when the development started to take place, among other things that the Jewish people are doing.

    It's interesting when you read about it.

    Sorry, got off the topic. :(

    MEE
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting but pointless.

    The "Hebrew nation church" system ended in the first century A.D.

    So also did God's sponsorship of the "sacrificial system".

    Sacrificing animals today - would do nothing to honor the Gospel, the atoning death of Christ where type met antitype, the plan of salvation etc.

    God's purpose for Israel was not to sidetrack the plan of salvation onto some - "Hebrews-no-matter-what" theme. Rather - Israel was intended as a kingdom of priests. A Holy Nation. A nation church that was the "means" of salvation for as Christ said "Salvation is of the Jews".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    Hi Bob!

    Am I understanding you to say that God will never return to the Jewish people again for a second chance at salvation?

    I realize that they rejected Him the first time He came, but don't you think that the seven years of tribulation is for Israel? :confused:

    If not, do you have any comments?

    MEE
     
  8. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    Carol:

    Hadn't heard of Clyde Lott, but have seen the term
    "Red Heifer" in print. Guess I never pursued it as
    appealing (like the Sabbath for instance). :D

    I'll look into Google.
    By the way, Mississippi is closer to you than me.

    Salvation is a spiritual matter, so maybe heifers and
    Sabbaths don't count.

    Did I say that ?

    Singer
     
  9. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    Singer,


    Isaiah 56:1. Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
    2. Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
    3. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
    4. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
    5. Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
    6. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
    7. Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
    8. The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
    9. All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
    10. His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
    11. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
    12. Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

    [ March 16, 2003, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    "Mocking the Sabbath??" That's a new one! I don't mock Christ. He is the only Sabbath I know of. He came to fulfill the law, and since He did the Sabbath (a shadow of things to come) has been done away with.
    Or are you still sacrificing bullocks in your backyard (maybe the Temple has already been reconstructed?)

    If you keep the law (i.e. Sabbath,) which according to Ex.31, is a sign only for the Jewish nation, then why not keep the whole law? Why pick and choose? A bit hypocritical aren't you?

    Deu.22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

    I'll bet that your clothing is not of all one kind. You're probably wearing some kind of polyester/cotton mix, or something like that. I doubt very much that ALL your clothing is of all type of cloth.
    You are not consistent.
    DHK

    [ March 16, 2003, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  11. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    Spitfire:

    The invitation to go to heaven is given each time we open the
    page to this Baptist Board. I clicked on it today out of curiousity
    and find that I agree wholeheartedly with it.

    I hope you do too and invite your response to :

    http://www.baptistuniverse.com/mbc/salvation.html


    Thanks for being Blunt....We have that in common !!

    This is a thread on Salvation, so I wish to interject this..........

    I have three friends nearing the age of 70 who all have terminal
    cancer and probably not more than 3 months to live.

    I wish to witness to them in depth. None of the three are
    openly spiritual and would not be assumed to have salvation
    by whatever standards one would wish to apply.

    One of the three has probably not ever been inside a church
    and he made the statement to me a couple years ago that
    "There is no God" and that "The bible is just one man's opinion".

    Laying aside our differences, there MUST be some general
    truth that can be applied in this situation. We all know someone
    or WILL know someone in this position.

    Spitfire.........you and I have a burning desire to promote the Gospel.
    Can we find some common ground here . . . . ?

    This is what our position as witnesses for Christ is all about..
    The time of payoff...to apply what we know and what the spirit
    has taught us.

    What shall I say to these dying men. . in terms they would understand.
    Shall I use the information in the attached link...Is it enough?

    Anyone ?
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Killing animals - and questions about realestate -has nothing to do with accepting Christ as your savior today.

    Jews are envited to accept Christ every day - just like the rest of mankind - one individual at a time. God loves them just like anyone else and is "not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" in their case as in ours.

    Given them a Red Heffer - or some realestate or another building, or a better political environment .... (or not doing so) does not change the Gospel being offered to them and us - in the least.

    #1. The tribulation that is future - is never said to be a "seven year" period of time in scripture.

    #2. There is no "separate Gospel for the Jew" - there is in fact - only "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-11.

    #3. God is not waiting for the end of the world - before reaching out to Jews and offering them salvation. In Acts 1 the Jewish desciples were to go first to Jerusalem, and Judea and then to the ends of the earth. The Jewish leaders of the 1st century christian church were VERY focused on Jewish evangelism. In Acts 13 you find Paul - the Apostle to the Gentiles - STILL going after the Jews with the gospel and being turned away.

    God never stopped trying to reach each of them with the good news of salvation.

    Romans 3 says "What then is the advantage of the Jew? GREAT in EVERY way!!" - it was true then and it is still true today. They are supposed to be by culture - familiar with God's Word that speaks about the coming Messiah and should be the FIRST to accept the Messiah - they have no excuse for coming in "last" and God is not waiting until the end to reach them.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    Singer,

    Your response has nothing to do with my last post.

    ZILCH.

    This isn't about 'what you should tell people'. You already have your mind made up.

    Read what the Bible says.

    Do you have a good Bible search software?

    Go see for yourself what God thinks.

    Type in 'Sabbath'

    Don't just take my word for it.

    God Bless

    [ March 16, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Is this the most Scriptural answer that you can give. It might be good for a moderator to look at this one.

    DHK
     
  15. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    [​IMG]

    [ March 16, 2003, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]
     
  16. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I'm not the moderator of this forum, but I am a moderator and in that role right now both DHK and 3AngelsMom are off the deep end.

    First, to 3AngelsMom -- please mind your manners. Debate does not mean telling people to shut up. If you have no better answer than that, it's best not to post.

    DHK, you are mixing up the Ten Commandments, which are for all people because they can all be kept personally without legal help with the rules and regulations given the theocracy of ancient Israel.

    There are rules for these discussions, folks, and courtesy is one of them. Please keep your responses respectful.

    Thank you.

    Helen
    moderator elsewhere here
     
  17. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    Spitfire:

    "And meanwhile; back at the ranch, the dispute rages while
    mankind dies in darkness"


    1. Because it's more important to debate doctrine.
    2. Because the issues of the Sabbath is more important
    .....than the issues of evangelization.
    3. Because we don't have time to practice what we preach.

    Yes my response was relative to your comments.

    I could witness all day long and not ever mention what day
    to worship on.

    These three men will probably never be in a church until the
    day of their funeral....and they will lose track of the days of
    the week eventually.

    What's important to them?.....Sabbath or Salvation ??

    What IS the Good News that I can share with them. . ?
     
  18. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Now, as Helen. DHK is not a liar and a fraud -- and I should have mentioned that rudeness in my moderator post as well. People have been given ten day suspensions for that kind of post, 3AngelsMom. You want your kids talking like that?

    As far as Jesus being our Sabbath rest, that is definitely true on a spiritual level. He gives us rest (Matthew 11:28-30) and the writer to the Hebrews urges us to enter that rest (Hebrews 4). Since, when we are born again, we enter into Christ, the connection is made there.

    This does not negate, however, the fact that our bodies and brains can sure use one day off in seven and that the commandments (and the Sabbath) were all made for man, to keep us from sinning and keep us healthy and safe.
     
  19. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    Helen you are right.


    DHK,

    You already know what my response will be to your questions because you have asked them before.

    God Bless

    [ March 16, 2003, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]
     
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Helen,
    With all due respect, I do not believe God ever meant the New Testament believer to ever keep the Sabbath. Christ is our Sabbath. The other nine commandments, yes, I believe that is the moral law that we are to keep, but not the Sabbath. God has specifically set that apart for the Jew: never for the New Testament believer.

    Ex.31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
    17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

    It was to be a sign for the Jewish nation forever.
    Christ is our Sabbath.

    3AM is a SDA, who believes that all should legalistically keep the Sabbath, and those that do not, but keep Sunday instead, have the mark of the beast.

    This is not a Scriptural position, and needs to be exposed.
    DHK
     
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