Satan and 1/3 od angels falling from heaven ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by HisWitness, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    S Something i have been studing for some time now and would like some input on this subject,where is the scritural proof that a Angelic being called Satan and 1/3 of angels fell from heaven or even exsist?I know the word Satan is used in old and new testament-But when you study the proper using of the word it DOES NOT identify an angelic being--but tells most of men,kings,even a document 1 time,and GOD himself --or anything or anyone that is an adversary to a people,person or God--Dont quote Peter or Jude in this,because they are supposedly 100 angels--not a 1/3 of all angels and its not even proved to be a true case anyways-- But pls offer any scripture as evidence of this even taking place at all in scripture.
     
  2. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    Revelation 12:2-10 (NET1)
    2 She was pregnant and was screaming in labor pains, struggling to give birth.
    3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadem crowns.
    4 Now the dragon’s tail swept away a third of the stars in heaven and hurled them to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child as soon as it was born.
    5 So the woman gave birth to a son, a male child, who is going to rule over all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was suddenly caught up to God and to his throne,
    6 and she fled into the wilderness where a place had been prepared for her by God, so she could be taken care of for 1,260 days.
    7 Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
    8 But the dragon was not strong enough to prevail, so there was no longer any place left in heaven for him and his angels.
    9 So that huge dragon — the ancient serpent, the one called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world — was thrown down to the earth, and his angels along with him.
    10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “The salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the ruling authority of his Christ, have now come, because the accuser of our brothers and sisters, the one who accuses them day and night before our God, has been thrown down.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    So when does this happen?

    Past, present, or future?
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    And how does that very symbolic language prove that Satan was ever an Angelic being?
     
  5. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, Satan was cast out of heaven before the fall of man. He took 1/3 of the angels with him. But he still had access to heaven as we see in the book of Job when he went before God and gave account if his actions and then accused Job. The war in heaven will take place during the tribulation period and Satan and his cohorts will be banned for good.
     
  6. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    By itself it does not, but comparing scripture with scripture I presume that a man that has been studying surely went to other books, such as Genesis, Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel and others. Unless you say that the serpent, the devil, Satan, and Lucifer are all different creatures, then the evidence is very clear imo.
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Obviously the serpent, the devil, and Satan are one and the same! However, I believe Lucifer is called a man who desired to ascend to Heaven!
     
  8. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    Theres nothing to prove that satan and angels fell before fall of man--that is completly speculation on your part.

    Red Dragon--had 7 heads and 10 horns--heads were 7 nations and horns were 10 kings--this is symbolic of a Empire--maybee the Roman Empire with all of its armies(red dragon's angel's)

    Lucifer-was a symbolic name given to the King of Babylon-study that out and you will find all that passage is talking about King Nebuchadnezzar and his rise and fall before the people and nations.

    Good start for this topic--but pls keep more scriptures comming--not just speculation :)
     
  9. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not speculating, but comparing scripture to scripture. The serpent in the garden that deceived Eve was Satan. The only creation that would deceive at that time was Satan. He had already sinned and wanted mankind to sin as well. So, yes, Satan fell before the fall of man.
     
  10. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    Satan is never referred to as ONLY 1 person in the scriptures(the word itself means in the greek to be an ADVERSARY-Look up the word Satan in the old testament and youll find that the word was used in many different ways--NOT to describe a fallen angel-but to describe an ADVERSARY--1 time it was Satan(a written document) other times it was a person or grp of people as a ADVERSARY to others and 1 time it was even GOD himself called SATAN(an ADVERSARY againt his own people)

    New Testament-just like the old--People,kings,Rulers,even men of GOD such as Peter was called SATAN(an adversary against CHRIST)the main ADVERSARIES of the apostles day was the Religous Leader and Leaders of the day(High Priest) was the ruling force of that day and was set in array against the church and Christ. their the ones who killed the saints and apostles and the LORD himself--they were the Spiritual Wickedness in High places that the apostles had to deal with with as Paul stated.

    and when Satan is used in new testament alot of the times its dealing with the High Priest and those with him.

    These are just some thoughts concerning the word SATAN.
     
  11. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    Serpent in the garden of Eden--There was only 2 people in that garden beside the animals and that was adam and eve.Please tell me how--if the serpent was a fallen angel named Satan--that he could have seed of his own being a spiritual being--cause God said His seed (serpent) would bruise the womans seed's heel and woman's seed would bruise the Serpent's seed's head.

    if serpent was a snake--how can a snake have snake babies thats gonna bruise the heel of the woman's seed?

    The only possible answer could be that the Serpent was Adam himself and Adams seed through the woman would bruise the heel of the woman's seed which is (Christ) bible never again speaks of a woman having seed--its always the man that speaks of having seed--but 1 rare exception is when God put Christ inside Mary's womb without the aid of a man--therefore 1 time in history has a woman had a seed.

    Man's seed always comes through the woman,but when there was no man to be with mary and God put the seed into her it became the woman's seed.

    So therefore you now have the man's seed in enmity with the woman's seed.
    Does the scripture say that we all are at ENMITY againt God beore we are brought to Christ ?

    And last of all God sent the serpent out upon his belly--that doesnt mean the snake crawled away on his belly ?
    Phil chapter 3 verse 19--speaks of the enemies of the cross whos end is destruction,whose God is their BELLY--they mind earthly things.
    God was cursing Adam and telling him that he would go out of the garden and basically walk after the flesh and fulfill the desires just as he had done by eating the fruit God said not to eat.
     
    #11 HisWitness, Jan 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  12. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here are some more thoughts on Satan. Like God, he is called by different names. His name does mean adversary. He is a real, created being. One of his names is the Devil.

    Before I went to LUSSL, I took the LHBI program, and Dr. Harold Wilmington had an article titled, "If I were the Devil" You remind me of that article, because you seem to be trying to get people not to believe there is a real being called Satan or the Devil. The article basically said that if he were the Devil, he would try and get people to believe that he did not exist. That was pretty profound to me at that time, and it still makes sense. Just saying.
     
  13. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    i think you are overlooking that Satan is just a title given to many different Adversaries in the bible--like i said God himself was called Satan in the old testament--you have no scriptural evidence that Satan was the fallen angel from heaven--its just not there when you really study it out.

    Tradition is a hard thing to get off of us--instead of holding to it --lets read and study for ourselves and find out what the bible really teaches and says--im not condeming you or anyone else at all because im in the lets read part aswell as you--we are all chained by tradition way too much.

    its hard for man to let go of the so called fallen angel named Satan because if he really never exsisted--then all the blame falls upon US and we have no one to blame but ourselves :)
     
  14. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you serious? Good grief, man, Satan took over the body of the serpent, just like he will the anti Christ. Heard any talking snakes lately? You say you have been studying this out, so surely this isn't the first time you have heard this view. I didn't go into detail my last post as I figured you knew where I was coming from. I don't wish to be rude or harsh here, so forgive me if I have misjudged you.
     
    #14 Bronconagurski, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2013
  15. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are great minds on both sides of this, so I will not be dogmatic. I disagree, but understand and respect your stance. Kiel and Delitzsch said Lucifer was a synonym for the King of Babel. If that is true, then I say it has a double meaning, just like I think the scripture in Ezekiel does with the King of Tyre. It makes an interesting study and I appreciate your input.
     
  16. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    God was called Satan? You must cite that one for us.
     
  17. SovereignMercy

    SovereignMercy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    If HisWitness said it, then I believe it... Arguing with many people on this forum is pointless. He didn't begin this discussion looking for the truth, but to promote his own heretical views.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    thank you. I have avoided this thread just by reading his first post, and came to that same conclusion.
     
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    That statement is beyond weird!
     
  20. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    Boredom from being out of work on disability is my excuse. :) Plus I have heard of his view, but never actually engaged anyone and just wanted to see what would come forth. Besides, nothing is ever on t.v. anymore.
     

Share This Page

Loading...