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Saturday August 16th event

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Jailminister, Aug 6, 2003.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I won't be there.

    A federal judge, such as Judge Thompson, has absolutely no business ruling either way in this case. This is an issue for the State of Alabama alone.

    The first amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

    This case has nothing to do with a law made by Congress. The federal judge should keep his nose within his constitutionally mandated area.

    Anyone who thinks the federal government has any business meddling in this case either doesn't understand the governmental framework of the U.S. Constitution or else doesn't care about the U.S. Constitution being adhered to. :cool:
     
  2. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    BB. I know you must study and I will give you that much credit. You bring up Backus, but I am afraid you don't understand what he was for and what he was against. Bakus taught, fought and stood against state sponsored church. He never stood against the church involvement with the state. In fact he worked most of his life trying to have influence in the government. Our discussion has been that this false doctrine of "separation of church and state" was endorsed by our forefathers. What Backus as well as I believe is that government should have no part in religion, but church can have a part in government. These 2 things are not the same. What is taking place with this false doctrine in today's society is that we are being told that religion has NO part in government or in the public. This was never the intent of Backus, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, etc. This is why we must fight any further attempt to destroy this relationship that has worked in the past, yet since 1963, has been quickly eroding with devasting results. You can see how our society is going down morally and spiritually.

    I hope this will help explain my position better because all we are doing so far is just arguing and doing little agreement. Let's at least agree on Christ and try to understand each others views.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Sorry to share with you, Ken, but we LOST a war over that . . and nothin's been the same since 1865! [​IMG]
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, that is true.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    I was born and raised in the South and live here still. I must say that I am glad that the Confederacy lost the Civil War. Had I been alive and a grown man during this time, I would have went north and fought for the Union.

    I know that some of you will disagree with me. That's alright.

    I believe that even though this was, in my opinion, the darkest time in our country's history, God did see that the outcome was the correct one.
     
  6. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    How dare He do such a thing? Christ is Deity in bodily form (Colossians 2:9). The body of Christ is His church (Colossians 1:24). If God meddled in the affairs of state(s), that is a gross violation of separation of church and state. How horrible, how unBaptist, and how tyranncial!
     
  7. Glory Bound

    Glory Bound New Member

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    You might want to study jefferson a littel closer. He changed quite a bit in his later life. He was the first president of the American Bible Society. Also, he did believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]Believing in the teachings of Jesus is not the same thing as believing in the miracles of Jesus. Jefferson discounted the miracles and the resurrection. I don't know about you, but I have a big problem with that.
     
  8. Sherrie

    Sherrie New Member

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    I totally agree with your post.

    If we allow this, then anyone can come along and place their cult rules there for others to see, and so on and so forth.

    Not only that, but Gods laws are planted in our hearts. We do not need signs.

    Sherrie
     
  9. mesing

    mesing New Member

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    OK, so this is how I see it in jailminister's eyes. I think! Christians should only be involved in church and evanglizism. While non-chirstian's rule the government and close us down. Because if Separation from church and state where the way he reads it. We wouldn't need to worry about christianity at all. We would all be underground because we wouldn have a say and government wouldn't have use for us. Our government was founded on Christian values. Did that come from non-christian people? Do we willing make our government weaker by separating yourselves? That is not what church and state was all about.
     
  10. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Mesing, You have me mixed up some other poster. I believe like you. I have been refuting those on this board that says religion has no part in government. Please go back and reread my post.

    Now Jefferson was brought up: here is some interesting Facts on what Jefferson believed and did for the cause of Christ:

    James Madison, trained to be a minister and preacher of the Gospel, is rightly called "the father of the United States constitution," as he played a key role in its framing. Both James Madison and Thomas Jefferson are called the "Champions of Religious Freedom." Why? Because they both spoke out against an established state-controlled church, such as the Anglican church in Virginia, which had forced all citizens to attend its services, pay tithes and which had persecuted all other Christian churches, such as the Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Mennonites, Lutherans, Quakers, etc. All these other Christian churches could not hold their own services, nor could they preach the Gospel without permission from the Anglican church. In Virginia, the Baptists had been thrown into prison on occasion, for worshipping God in their own way, and for preaching the Gospel outside the Anglican church.
    Thomas Jefferson put a stop to this religious persecution, by Act of Congress, with his document: "Statutes for Religious Freedom in Virginia", which abolished the Anglican state-controlled church, replacing it with Freedom of Religion, that is freedom of different Christian churches, as above mentioned, to worship in their own way, without being persecuted and punished.

    This is the real meaning of the First Amendment Clause of our United States Constitution, which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been. This is the true meaning of the phrase: "Separation of the Church from interference by the State." Now, all the different Christian denominations could worship God in their own way, and preach the Gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ wherever they wished.
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    And I would have been fighting to preserve the Confederacy from Yankee invasion in the War for Southern Independence. We might have even been shooting at each other.

    "I will shoulder my musket
    And brandish my sword
    In defense of this land"
    - traditional southern song
     
  12. mesing

    mesing New Member

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    Whoops sorry Jailminister, I did. I was trying to work out what was being said Please forgive.
     
  13. Sherrie

    Sherrie New Member

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    I think what the simplest thing to think of here is that whatever we do, all other groups such as Satanist, cults, idolaters can also post things. If we can pray in school, then why not other groups. Do you want your Christian Children, or other Family members seeing and being subject to it?


    The Ten Commandments were rules to live by. Without them the people would not know they even were doing anything wrong. These are examples that we do need to live by, but as Christians our hearts are convicted. And the Laws are placed there in our hearts. We need no signs to teach us. The Holy Spirit teaches us.

    As Christians we are to abide in Christ Jesus. It is there in Christ Jesus that we are living in the joy of His salvation, and the joy of his eternal life, the joy of being intimate with the Father. This is true salvation and we do not need all this other jargon to perserve it. We abide in Christ Jesus! We are alive.

    The Ten Commandments were written down for God's chosen people. Now Jesus is written in our hearts.

    So simple.

    sherrie
     
  14. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Sherrie, Here is the Scripture:
     
  15. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Sherrie Here is the scripture: 2Cor 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

    You see the 10 commandments are etch in our hearts, but the stones are a symbol of what is on the heart. Those who want them removed also want to get rid of what is on the heart. This is a spiritual battle and we must stand.
     
  16. Sherrie

    Sherrie New Member

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    Abide in him. We are the living stones. Whoever passes by and ask why I am so joyful in such a sinful world, I tell them come here and let me show you all the Lord has done for me. He gave me His son Jesus Christ.

    No one can take what is already the Lords. No piece of paper posted or not, will take or give the Lord.

    The Word of the Lord has been handed down form Generation to Generation. It has survive the floods and fires, and all other things. It is the same today as yesterday. The Holy Spirit still resides in us, still teaching, and still giving those who are truly saved, His wonderous joy.

    Gos Bless
    Sherrie
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Separation of Church and State is proper
    Separation of God and State is not

    Psalm 90: 17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

    Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
     
  18. Glory Bound

    Glory Bound New Member

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    Jailminister,

    I asked you a pretty simple question earlier. Should we teach Thomas Jefferson's view of scriptures in our schools and post them in government buildings?

    You said Jefferson believed in the teachings of Christ. Sure, but he didn't believe in the miracles recorded in the Bible, including the resurrection. Is that belief, by one of our founding fathers, acceptable to be taught in our schools and posted in our gov't buildings?
     
  19. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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  20. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    God in body is Jesus Christ. The body of Jesus Christ is His church. If separation of God and state is not proper, and separation of church and state is proper, then it is 'proper' for God to completely separated from the body of Christ, the church. So then we, the church, must be separate from God, who, if separated from the body of Christ, is separate from us; or else the church and God are both separate from the state.

    So, is it that binary?-- Church=unified with Christ=unified with God--&gt; separate from state or unified with state? God, Christ, and church are all separated from state, or they are not unified with each other.
     
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