Saved by Grace through Faith

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Ephesians 2:8a,

    First we see how salvation comes, it is by Grace, which is of God’s. It is not of ourselves of that we can all agree. Next we see it is a gift that Salvation is the gift of God that is Grace is God gifts to man. But is Salvation the gift spoken of here let’s see,

    John 4:Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    What was Jesus referring to as the gift of God that is what is the living water? The living water was the gift, and who or what is that living water? For it is eternal life. Now let’s dig deeper. The gift of God is eternal life, both verses speak of the gift of God being eternal life, so is Faith eternal life or is Salvation eternal Life? If Salvation is eternal life then what is Faith? Can Faith be works? You say well Faith is the Gift of God, Faith is listed as part of the fruit of Spirit. But what type of Faith is it? Faith for Salvation or do we see people that no matter the situation their Faith is seen in trusting God in time to see them through.

    Now is Faith works? James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Works show our Faith to the world works make Faith perfect or they complete our faith, therefore do works save us not in the least, Faith in Christ brings Salvation but Faith is not works when it comes to salvation but works complete our Faith, they are the witness to the world that we have true Faith.

    So the Gift of God is eternal life that is salvation Ephesians 2:8 & 9 makes it clear “For by Grace ye saved through Faith; and that not of yourself it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast” that we have the gift of eternal life through Faith in Jesus. “faith cometh by Hearing and Hearing by the Word of God.”

    The beginning and final quote from Calvin on Ephesians 2:9. Instead of what he had said, that their salvation is of grace, he now affirms, that “it is the gift of God.” …His meaning is, not that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God, or, that we obtain it by the gift of God.” Accordingly Paul sates Salvation is the gift of God so too does Calvin back up Paul that Salvation is the gift of God. Faith is the method in which man must receive it, so is Faith works? God Forbid, Faith is an action that requires a conscious decision.
     
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  2. percho

    percho
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    for by grace ye are having been saved, through the faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift, YLT with, "the," put before faith because of it being the Greek of TR.

    Grace, what grace?

    Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. 1 Peter 3:7 KJV

    Is it he grace of life of which we are currently heirs thereof, not inheritors?

    For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Titus 2:11

    When did that grace appear, that brought salvation? --

    1 Cor 15:17 KJV And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

    If Christ had not been raised would we be saved (have salvation) or still in our sins?

    Isn't the grace of God the truth of the Father having raised Jesus Christ from the dead> Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.

    Was the Spirit shed on us through the one who received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father after having been raised up from the dead?

    He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:31-33

    Is that the Grace by which we have become the heirs, not yet inheritors, of the hope of eternal life?
    Titus 3:6,7 KJV Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, (of life) we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
     
  3. percho

    percho
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    My question would be.

    In Eph 2:8 by having the word, "through," preceding, "the faith," doesn't that mean grace was a result of, "the faith"? And if grace there is the resurrection of Jesus then what, "the faith"?

    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:23 Doesn't, "through." mean because he received first therefore we also can receive?
    Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
     
  4. Samuels

    Samuels
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    I have time to quickly say ...
    Some verses speak of obeying as receiving the gospel,
    while other verses speak of obeying Jesus commands.
    I would like to research this in depth.
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Hebrews 11:1 tells us that faith consists of the "substance" of things "hoped" for. God creates that substance in the darkened heart by revealing the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the person of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 4:6). That "knowledge" is eternal life (Jn. 17:3).

    When the gospel is preached by man it comes no further than the outer ear of man. However, when God empowers it as his creative word he speaks into existence that light of knowlege (2 Cor. 4:6) into the darkened heart which dispels that darkness by that "light" of knowledge. That knowledge is the revelation of Christ as presented in the gospel, and it is that knowledge that is the "substance" of faith as it is the substance of our "hope" of eternal life.

    So, Paul tells the Thessalonians that they could know their own election by the fact that the gospel did not come to them in "word only" but came to the elect in power and in the spirit transforming them into the same manner of men who preached the gospel unto them - 1 Thes. 1:4-5.

    So faith cometh by this kind of hearing and this kind of hearing comes by the "RHEMA" (translated "word") or the WORD OF COMMAND just as God "commanded" light to come into existence in Genesis 1:3 as this is the background for 2 Cor. 4:6.

    In Ephesians 2:8 the word there is a greek construction called a periphrastic construct consisting of the present tense verb joined with the perfect tense verb. The perfect tense verb points back to a specific point in time where "saved" became a completed action and that completed action continues up to the point of Paul's writing. The joining with the present tense verb simply emphasizes its continuing perfected state. The "through faith" occurred at that completed point of action of "saved" which in context is describing their quickening (see. vv.1, 5 where "saved by grace" first occurs as an explanation of the creative act of quickening). Quickening is in part the creative work of God through His creative word, or the gospel empowered that provides the "substance" for "hope" that saving faith consists. Hence, the empowered gospel not only quickens the elect, but it becomes at the same instant the "substance" for the hope that is embraced by faith. So saving faith is inseparable from quickening as it is the immediate consequence but not the cause.
     
  6. utilyan

    utilyan
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    1 Corinthians 13

    2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.


    Perfect Faith - Love = NOTHING


    omniscient+omnipotent+profphecy+all faith - Love = NOTHING.
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    We are saved by grace - which of course is a gift of God - through faith - which provides our access to the grace in which we stand. So does faith come with salvation or does it precede salvation, such as going through the door of faith in order to enter the room of grace.
     

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