Saved through the Passion of the Christ

[/quote]

Who says it's a bad tree? Oh, that's right - this author of your link who never even saw the movie by his own admission: "Quite frankly, I did not wish to attend."

Another rumor mill web site to bash Mel & Catholics. Satan never wanted the movie to be made and now that it is, he's causing normally sane Christians to spread lies about it. Way to go.

 

LE said:

Oh, that's right - this author of your link who never even saw the movie by his own admission: "Quite frankly, I did not wish to attend."


S&T:

I saw it twice in private screenings, and I agree with the article. It is not about bashing anyone, it is about what is the truth, and this movie is not. I can not believe how many Baptists are being misled by their feelings. As Christians, we are not to look for our entertainment, much less teaching from an errant secular source. I think that the person who wrote the article, that refused out of principle to go and view the movie, is the smartest one of all of us.

 

FOJ Comments on the Passion of The Christ http://www.focusonjerusalem.com/newsroom.html

thought this was interesting thought I would share it .

Feb. 27….(FOJ) Today’s headline in Israel says that Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger has called upon Pope John Paul II to reaffirm his position that the Jews are not responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. The Chief Rabbi of Israel fears that the movie The Passion of the Christ may rekindle beliefs among some that the Jews were to blame for the death of Jesus. Many in Israel are calling for the movie to be banned in Israel. It seems that nothing ca stir up as much controversy as does Jesus. He is still provocative even today! Is it not ironic to see that Jesus, Israel, the Jews, and Rome are so much in the news today, just as they were 2000 years ago! But there is one new player—The Pope.

I went to see Mel Gibson’s movie yesterday and offer the following comments:

1) The movie portrayal of Jesus agony and suffering through the scourging and Crucifixion were adequately represented, and truly conveyed a deep sense of “passion.” I think the physical, emotional, and personal trauma that Jesus actually endured however cannot possibly be depicted in film. Jesus actually died of a broken heart!



2) The movie subtly carried a continual undertone of Marianism. The Pope-Vatican is considering mandating that Mary was actually the Co-Redemptrix in Christ’s Passion, and I think this movie will promote that agenda. Mary was shown throughout the movie as being more than a loving-caring Mother. She was depicted as being a cooperating partner-participant in the Passion. She is often referred to as “Mother” by Peter, John, and all those who were close to Christ. She is shown as being constantly on the scene throughout the scourging, the trial, the Via Dolorosa, and the crucifixion lending a spiritual hand to Jesus, with Jesus seemingly relying on her. At the end, Jesus words, “Behold thy Mother” were subliminally meant to inspire people to revere the Church of Rome. This is not the Biblical account. (Mel Gibson is a devout Catholic and adheres to strict Catholic doctrine) However, Vatican Rome is flat wrong!

3) In one scene in the scourging courtyard, there is a dramatic view of Satan dressed in a black cape carrying a small child. The child turns to the camera and wryly smiles an ugly smile. The scene may have been intended to be a flashback to Jesus birth and the slaughter of the innocents. However, I gained a sense of it being a flash ahead in time. (seed of the serpent) Roman Catholic eschatology forecasts a coming time of Great Chastisement for the Church. It is the period of time that we as pre-millennial, pre-tribulationists interpret as the Great Tribulation. Rome does not adhere to the event known as the Rapture for the Church. Therefore, the scene enables Rome to forecast the coming Antichrist as the Christ. In a tragic case of role-reversal in prophecy, this aspect of the movie could lend itself to being a valuable tool in enabling the False Prophet to deceive the public a bout the true Christ when he comes back in the near future. But most people will not pick up on this detail.

4) The Passion of Christ’s suffering (movie) focuses on blood and gore. It appeals to the emotions of the viewer.

I can easily see it bringing about an emotional bond between denominations and religions. Considering that we are indeed in the Last Days, I was able to see where the theme of the movie (Mary, passion) could be used for religious unity. Afterall, nothing brings people together like a doting-loving comPASSIONate Mother. Seeing as how this movie was so filled with blood, it is Ironic that the Roman Catholic Church offers an unbloody sacrifice of Christ on a continual basis. Mary is shown sopping up Christ’s blood as if she now is a participant in the sacrifice.

5) The Passion of the Christ movie offered a respite from Rome to avoid anti-Semitism. The movie complies with the Pontifical Council of Inter-religious Dialogue and Harmony. The Vatican has gone to great lengths under Pope John Paul II to reach out to Jews and establish a link of tolerance and acceptance. Such a move should be anticipated in the religious arena before the Antichrist appears on the stage.

Over seven hundred years before Jesus was even born, the prophet Isaiah prophesied of Jesus scourging and Crucifixion. Crucifixion didn’t even exist when Isaiah forecast the evil torture that Christ would be subjected to.

Isaiah 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Hebrews 9:24-28 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus allowed himself to endure THE PASSION and the Crucifixion ONE TIME. His single act of self sacrifice is all the price he needed to pay for ALL sin. Have you accepted his payment? If not you need to be reminded that HE is returning the Second Time to destroy the seed of the Serpent!

 

"Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen."--Revelation 1:7

And I'm not referring to the movie "Passion"----I'm talking about the REAL Jesus!!

Brother David

 

It is not truthful that Jesus came and died on the Cross?

It is not truthful that He suffered and was scourged?

Is it not truthful that Mary was the Mother of Jesus?

Is it not truthful that Jesus is the Son of God?

Is it not truthful that Jesus is "I AM"?

Is it not truthful that Jesus is "the way, the truth and the life - no man comes to the Father but by me?"

It is not truthful that He bore the sins of the world on the Cross?

It is not truthful that darkness came when He was on the cross and earthquakes and the veil of the Temple was rent in two?

It is not truthful that the religious leaders were behind the plot? It is not truthful that Rome was the ruler of the day and there were politics involved?

It is not truthful that Jesus bore our sins willingly, that beforehand He was in anguish in the Garden and sweat great drops of blood?

It is not truthful that Satan would have liked nothing more than to see Jesus death on the Cross & Resurrection fail?

Is it not truthful that Jesus was scourged with chunks of his flesh and bones gouged out?

Is it not truthful He was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver & a kiss and that Judas hung himself?

Is it not truthful that His mother was at the foot of the Cross?

Is it not truthful Peter denied the Lord three times before the cock crowed?

Is it not truthful that Jesus carried his cross up to Golgotha and a man helped Him part of the way? Is it not true Jesus stumbled?

Is it not true spikes were driven through His hands and feet?

Is it not true He was offered vinegar to drink?

Is it not true He said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?"

Is it not true He said, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?"

Is it not truthful that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again?

Is it not truthful the stone was rolled away and Jesus was resurrected?

Is it not truthful the nail prints are still in His hands?

I'm sure there are more - but these are truths that are in the Bible and are in the movie. So for someone to say the movie is not truthful is....well, not truthful.

 

LE stated:

It is not truthful that.......

S&T:

I could go through your long list, and show how much of it was presented along wih error mixed in, but I will spare the people of the forum. God is a God of Truth. In Hebrew He is known as El Emet. [God of Truth] He does not mix lies or man's opinions with His Truth, because He is a Holy God.There is no Jesus AND.....period. In a two hour movie, there was about five minutes of Scripture read. Some of it was mixed with other lines or quoted in a place where it did not occur.["See mother, I make all things new"]. You can not mix chicken dung, and chicken cordon bleu, and get a tasty dinner. This is what happens when men try to have a "vision" of God's Kingdom in a so called artistic fashion. If this is the greatest evangelistic tool of the last two thousand years, we are all finished.

P.S.

Please remember that the enemy quotes scripture ...but he will twist it, or not quote all of it. For anyone who thinks that this is a good movie, don't worry ...."You surely will not die"....

 

It is not truthful that Jesus came and died on the Cross?
...
I'm sure there are more - but these are truths that are in the Bible and are in the movie. So for someone to say the movie is not truthful is....well, not truthful. </font>[/QUOTE]is truthfulness determined by the presence of a number of truthful representations?

or the presence of untruthful representations?

i wonder how many of the latter LE can list.

 

I have to adress a few of these at least:

LE:

It is not truthful that He suffered and was scourged?

S&T:

On the back side only, according to Roman Law, not on both sides as depicted in the movie. The beating with the canes before the scourging was a nice touch....

LE:

It is not truthful that darkness came when He was on the cross and earthquakes and the veil of the Temple was rent in two?

S&T:

Yes it is, but it was total darkness, not a storm as depicted in the movie erranty, which goes against Scripture. Yes the veil was rent, not the temple split as depicted in the movie. Let me know where the giant tear drop from heaven is in Scripture please.

LE:


It is not truthful that Satan would have liked nothing more than to see Jesus death on the Cross & Resurrection fail?

S&T:

Yes, satan as in he, also known as the father of lies, not a woman as errantly portrayed in the movie.


LE:

Is it not truthful that Jesus was scourged with chunks of his flesh and bones gouged out?

S&T

One side only....for more info on the topic, please read:

http://www.frugalsites.net/jesus/


LE:

Is it not true He was offered vinegar to drink?

S&T:

On a reed, not on the tip of a Roman sword.

 

Unfortunately, it was only a two hour movie. While it was portrayed as a storm, darkness was certainly alluded to.

I don't see any problem here.

[qb]

Actually, it was a rain drop, not a tear drop. It was a storm, remember?

Actually, Satan was not portrayed as a woman. his gender never even came up in the movie.

Trivial.

 

Actually, Satan was not portrayed as a woman. his gender never even came up in the movie.

The satan character was interesting, dark and frightening. I did not know the character was played by a woman until my with pointed it out while the credits were rolling.

 

Unfortunately, it was only a two hour movie. While it was portrayed as a storm, darkness was certainly alluded to.

I don't see any problem here.


ME NEITHER MIKE. I wonder how many people would have sat in 3 hours of total darkness while we waited out that scene?

Actually, it was a rain drop, not a tear drop. It was a storm, remember?


AGREE MIKE. The tear drop remark was made by someone here and not alluded to in the movie.

Actually, Satan was not portrayed as a woman. his gender never even came up in the movie.


EXACTLY MIKE. I had no idea a woman played satan until I read it on the board.

Trivial. </font>[/QUOTE]Agree with Mike! Certainly not going to send anyone to hell!

 

Well, people sat through "The Cable Guy" for two hours so you never know.

 

Regarding the tear/rain drop...my pastor saw the movie and he thought it was a tear drop coming from God the Father. He thought that was one of the most moving things in the entire movie.

CJ

 

Mark 15:39 So when the centurion, who stood opposite Him, saw that He cried out like this and breathed His last, F84 he said, "Truly this Man was the Son of God!"

This verse is in reply to vaspers who said 'the last 12 hours of the life of Christ wasn't enough to save a fly, let alone a human'.

ANOTHER VERSE THAT DISPROVES THAT REMARK!!!!

Diane

 

That is your opinion. Here's another:

http://www.christcrucified.com/JESUS-DEATH.htm

Since neither one of us has been eye witness to a Roman scourge, neither one of really knows do we?

In your profile you list your denomination as "Berean." Is that Baptist? This section of the Board is for Baptists only, by the way.

 

Diane, I agree with you on this one. While the movie was not everything I hoped it would be, it is still worth seeing. I cannot believe all the fuss that is being made about it. From the Jewish Community on one end to the rigid biblical literalist on the other, there sure is a lot of folks talking about Jesus. No one can argue that this movie has not cause a lot of conversation about Jesus and that may the biggest blessing that comes from it.

 

Rock, the biblical literalists on this board forget this verse...

John 21:25
And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

 

LE,

After looking at the link you posted as a testimony, I noticed that the author was unknown:

A PHYSICIAN LOOKS AT JESUS' DEATH Author: Unknown

S&T:

The article that I posted was from a well respected Doctor, and appeared originally in the Journal of American Medical Association, one of the top medical journals in the world. Here is a link to it on a Catholic site:

http://www.cga94.com/contributors/stuff/crucifixion/

Here is the title page from it:

Reprinted from JAMA - The Journal of the American Medical Association
March 21, 1986, Volume 256
Copyright 1986, American Medical Association


From the Departments of Pathology (Dr. Edwards) and Medical Graphics (Mr. Hosmer), Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn.; and the Homestead United Methodist Church, Rochester, Minn., and the West Bethel United Methodist Church, Bethel, Minn. (Pastor Gabel).


Reprint requests to Department of Pathology, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN 55905 (Dr. Edwards)


S&T:

You are welcome to choose whatever source you feel comfortable with, as being scholarly.


LE:
In your profile you list your denomination as "Berean." Is that Baptist? This section of the Board is for Baptists only, by the way.

S&T:

I have to laugh when people resort to this.

 

Diane:

Rock, the biblical literalists on this board forget this verse...


John 21:25
And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

S&T:

So did Mel get these by direct revelation, or did he find it easier to read them in the mystical writings of Catherine Emmerich , which are viewed to be a close second to Scripture according to the Catholic church. Her book can be found online, and I would suggest that you can find many of the extrabiblical stuff from The Passion in that book.

 

MikeMck:

Actually, Satan was not portrayed as a woman. his gender never even came up in the movie.

S&T:

Did you miss the satanic mother and child scene.