Saving Baseball?

Discussion in 'Sports' started by TomVols, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    We've been talking about what to do to save the NHL. Well, some feel that MLB is sinking. Reggie Jackson gave an impassioned plea at Cooperstown a few years ago. Others point to the dwindling support and lack of youth and minority interest in the game. Keith Olbermann, a lover of the game, likened the MLB to watching an alcoholic relative slowly dying.

    Is baseball on shaky ground? What would you do to improve it?
     
  2. Andy T.

    Andy T.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it's doing fine. One thing that would help is to put the DH in the NL. Another thing is there are too many pitching changes and the games tend to drag out. They need to find a way to speed up the game a little. I hate all the pitching changes. Of course, that's easy to say when your team has such an awful bullpen. :laugh:
     
  3. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're telling me about awful bullpens? Have you forgotten who my team is? :laugh: Like I said last week, your bullpen is all that stands in the way of you and the division flag.

    I am concerned about baseball's lack of growth. I don't know if we've had a commish worth his salt since Bowie Kuhn, and even that may be a stretch.

    Steroids has done some damage, maybe irreperably so. The greatest record in all of sports is about to go down, and instead of me planning my life schedule around it, I'm only curious because of the cloud surrounding it (Oh, I'll watch, but still, it's not the same).

    I agree about the DH needing to go to the NL. I also agree that games are too long. Limiting the warm up pitches on the mound would be a good start, and only a time out once in the box or on the rubber for a physical injury would be a nice start. ABs shouldn't take 5 minutes.

    Aside from that, I think there just needs to be better leadership in the Commish's office. I think that's the biggest problem. One little tweak: Play the All Star game on Wednesday night, and have no games until Saturday of that week. That would end a little of the "we can't wear down the players" nonsense and then those who are irked about the winning league hosting the WS could be assuaged.
     
  4. Andy T.

    Andy T.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would be in favor of shortening the season down to 150 games, get rid of IL play, make the first round of the playoffs 7 games, and have the W.S. completed by October 15th. You could accomplish this by playing more doubleheaders. Make these millionaires work a little.
     
  5. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Shucks! I thought you'd say blow up the Metrodome. :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2
    I hate to say it, but salary caps & revenue sharing have done a lot to improve football.

    I think most fans would like to see better drug testing & enforcement.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. Get rid of DH.

    2. Speed up games by speeding up pitching, limiting batter's shenanigans in the box (stepping out, calling time at the last second, etc.). Speed up pitcher's delivery by calling balks on excessive time between pitches. Limit pick off moves during an at bat to perhaps four (just like balls). More than four pick off throws is a balk.

    3. Shorten the season to 140-150 games.

    4. Lessen the number of days off during a season. 150 game seasons should be played in 160 days.

    5. Shorten time between innings.
     
  8. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    True revenue sharing with hard salary caps - NYY and boston dont need all the best players every year.

    Dump the DH altogether (and I am an AL fan)

    Get rid of at least two teams - the talent pool is too shalow - of course my team is a minor league team this year anyway!

    get real tough on steroids - get the folks that test for the tour de france in every club house for every game if it takes that. Extend major testing to the minor leagues (and high school and college for that matter) Texas passed steroid testing for HS kids next year - we will see if it does any good.

    Have each major league team donate a significant amount of money to build ballclubs/parks/eqipment and coaches for innercity kids. a few million for each city those teams play in would dramatically improve the talent in a few years and build interest

    I like the length of the season - baseball is too tradition driven with its records etc to shorten the season
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Shortening the season would not be a high priority for me, though I mentioned it. I forgot to mention getting tough on drugs. Ban Bonds now and excise him from the record books. Institute tough drug testing.
     
  10. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    I also agree that the first round of the playoffs should be 7 games
     
  11. Dustin

    Dustin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's my rememdy for baseball. It's very drastic.

    1. Get rid of the DH completly. Baseball was played for just about 100 years without it and it was fine. Why the AL had to go and try to "fix" what wasn't broken, I have no idea. So what if it lengthens careers and gets a ton more runs scored, I believe it dillutes what the game is supposed to be.

    2. Make the All-Star Game what it originally was. A game showcasing the best guys in baseball that year, with no home field advantage in the playoffs at stake. Besides, in reality, it will only help one team. Let's say one year, the Braves go and win 107 games, and are the best team in baseball by 10 or 12 games, they get denied home field advantage because the AL won the All-Star game when let's say the Red Sox won only 95 games. it should be decided by regular season performance, whoever wins the most games should have home field advantage, because they were the best during the regular season.

    3. Get rid of the Wild Card. It's yet another way teams that weren't good enough in thier division can get hot for a 5 or 7 game series and beat a better team. In 1993, the San Francisco Gaints won 103 games, and after the last day of the season, the Braves had won 104 and the Giants went home. No playoffs or anything. If you're not the best through the regular season, you shouldn't be in the playoffs. This goes into my next points...

    4. Back to only 2 divisions. Yep! Get rid of the Central Division, from 1969 to 1993 that's the way it was, and it was fine! To equal out both leagues, move some teams in the NL to the AL. Give an NL West team to the AL West, and just split the rest of the Central between the East and West. Now that there are two less playoff spots, teams have to play better if they want to get into the playoffs. Then we would actually get to see the better teams in, instead of teams like thethe 83 win Cardinals of last year. It's a lotless complicated, and more fair to the teams who strived to be as best as they could during the regular season.
     
  12. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dustin,
    We've hashed out the DH, so I won't reiterate how ridiculous the NL is for not having it :laugh: I also won't quibble terribly with the All Star game. However, I strongly disagree with your points 3-4. Division winners are not always the best teams because some divisions are stronger than others (see the NBA). Would you argue that the Miami Heat is a better team than the Suns? The Heat won their division; the Suns didn't.

    Using your approach, and assuming any or even the most modest of realignments given expansion, there are years in recent memory where a 96 win team would be home, even while an 88 win team wins their division and is in. Sometimes weaker teams win their weaker divisions. It just happens. The only, and I mean only way I'd support your proposal is to contract the leagues by 2-4 teams each.

    Probably the only good thing expansion has done is force us to (1) get rid of the stupid geographical arrangements the NL had (Cincinnati and Atlanta are in the West?) and (2) Give good teams a shot at the flag and stop penalizing them just for being in a strong division.
     
  13. Andy T.

    Andy T.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom, I generally agree. Divisional play was first created in 1969 because expansion had grown the number of teams that it was silly to have straight leagues with 10-12 teams each. Well, we kept expanding to the point that we had enough teams for 3 divisions. But the problem is, they are not all equal in number, so it creates unbalanced schedules, which I don't like. If MLB contracted down to 28 teams, then going back to 2 divisions of 7 would be nice. A division of 8 is just too big, however.

    But the more I think about it, the more I might agree with Dustin on this. If you are going to have a regular season of 162 games then make it mean something. Having more teams in the playoffs dilutes the meaning of the regular season.
     
  14. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would only be in favor of 2 divisions if they take the top 2 teams in each division into the playoffs.
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2
    I like the wildcard, and I also like the all-star game winner getting homefield advantage.

    Salary caps & a revenue sharing. That's what I want.
     
  16. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Andy,
    the 162 game season does mean something. This isn't the NHL where everyone gets in the playoffs :) I have a hard time telling the 2nd best team in the division who wins 90 games that their regular season doesn't count because a team who won 81 games in another division (and wins the right to play for the flag) just happens to be in another division. The playoffs are part of the season, not an add-on.

    The wild-card has added excitement. Having a four-team field vie for the flag is exciting. We have more races coming down to the wire, and save for divisional weakness (which will happen everywhere from time to time), the teams that make it desrve to make it. The Wild-Card has done nothing that the flat-earthers said it would do to harm baseball.

    My biggest qualm with expansion is that we do have unbalanced schedules. Four-team divisions are not good for the game, but neither are 7 or 8 team divisions.
     
  17. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, and remember, people screamed that breaking into two divisions would kill the playoffs.

    Someday, there will be an NIV-only faction :laugh:

    Sacred cows make the best hamburgers. :thumbs: (remember, I'm a purist)
     
  18. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,454
    Likes Received:
    93
    What was "broken" was that pitching had taken over the game too much, especially in the American League which had a .230 league batting average in 1968. Expansion in '69 and lowering the pitcher's mound raised run production a little, but the argument continued to try the DH until the AL finally did in 1973, as an experiment for 3 years. But the very first year upped run production and, more importantly, attendance, that it was made permanent by the end of '73. [And this doesn't even get into how pitchers are not evaluated at all on their hitting ability, completely by their ability to pitch.] Other sports have done similar things to put more offense in the games resulting in more fans in the stands. The average score in an NBA games has not always been 100-95 (that's a guess), and decades ago 500 yards was a good season for an NFL halfback.

    Nothing to say about your #2.

    Then why have playoffs? If the winner of the East was 2 games better than the winner of the West, why not declare the East champion the league champion? Indeed, why have a "World Series;" instead just declare the team with the best record in either league the "World Champions" [I will not blow the scope of this thread by blasting that term as a misnomer]? I wouldn't care, however, if we did get rid of interleague play; the Series is automatically justified if the 2 teams which came out on top play each other from 2 independent leagues which did not otherwise authorize play against each other in official games.

    Regardless of how that's divided up, East and West, this way you are going to have an unbalanced number of teams, such as 7 in one division and 8 in the other (since there are 30 MLB teams). So if you want only 2 playoff contenders, in one division a team has to beat out 7 other teams; in the other division a team has to beat out 6 others. You could, of course, se the number at 84 for games against your own division-- meaning in an 8-team div. you play each div. opponent 12 times, and in a 7-team div. you play each div. opponent 14 times. But the other 78 games would not be exactly equal in playing which team how many games...unlike it was when there were 2 division of 6 teams, and a team played each div. opponent 18 times and each opposite div. opponent 12 times.

    Besides that, why do you just throw out "Give an NL West team to the AL West?" I'm sure the Dodgers would go willingly; arent' you? If not, how about Arizona, which whined its way into the NL in the first place because they wanted to develop a rivalry with the Dodgers; thus, Tampa Bay got in with the Yankees and RedSox. If you really want to try make any team change leagues, you better find one that agrees to it, or else there will be long expensive lawsuits. Milwalukee would probably resent being asked to be the one to change again, and I wouldn't disagree; they did it once when they weren't that eager, but they also didn't have a really firm foundation, unlike the Dodgers, Giants, Cardinals, et al.

    I have gradually succumbed to having 4 teams vie for the league championship, or 8 teams in playoffs; but I don't think I want 16, or even 12. If MLB expands to 32 teams, that may solve some of the divisional balance problems.. but I have to oppose that, right now, because expansion has diluted some of the quality of play. Especially pitching, which is why the game now arguably has too much offense; the opposite of 35-40 years ago.

    I guess with that statement I have rounded your 4 bases and am now safe at home.
     
  19. Dustin

    Dustin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess my reason for wanting less divisions and no Wild Card, is I personally think it would make playoff spots mean more. As far as putting MORE spots in the playoffs, I'm against it, there are already more than enough as it is.

    Having the DH in the NL would just be criminal. Some pitchers CAN hit, pitchers SHOULD hit. It just wouldn't be right.

    The All-Star Game deal going on now is just a ploy to try and get people to watch it. It serves no other purpose, except for ruining what the game is supposed to be.

    I guess I shoulda been around in the '50's and '60's. No DH, no Wild Card, no 1 division too many.

    I'm just old-school, I guess.
     
  20. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would support going back to two division, with only division winners getting into the playoffs. That would eliminate a round of games. As for teams winning more games in a stronger division but finishing second, that's life. Win more games than the team ahead of you. That's the name of the game.
     

Share This Page

Loading...