Saving faith...or human trust...?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    In the book I was quoting in the other thread on faith I saw this; pg 479,480

    • Doctrinal orthodoxy is not necessarily to be equated with saving faith. There are different types of “faith”—and most have nothing to do with saving faith at all. Not only tradition, but the Scriptures themselves describe more than one kind of “belief” or “faith”. Mark the following:

    1. A doctrinal faith. A creed, confession, or system of doctrine can be termed a “faith” (Acts 14:2; 16:5; Gal. 1:23; 2 Tim. 4:7). But true, saving faith includes more than doctrinal orthodoxy—it includes a God–engendered trust and commitment (Acts 18:27; Eph. 2:8–10).

    2. A merely intellectual faith. This is a “faith” that believes the facts, an intellectual assent to propositional truth or historical facts (Jn. 2:23–25; 1 Cor. 2:1–5; Jas. 2:19). While true, saving faith is intelligent and intellectual, it is necessarily accompanied by a God–given commitment


    3. A theoretical faith. This is a “faith” that exists in principle only, but is denied in practice—it is not the controlling force or influence in the life and experience (Jn. 2:23–25; 12:42–43; Acts 26:27–28).

    4.It is an unreserved, utter commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ—the response of the whole man to the whole Christ (Jn. 1:12–13; 3:161254; Acts 16:31; Rom. 1:17; 10:9–10; Eph. 2:8–10).A selective faith. This is a “faith” in Jesus as “savior,” but denying him as “Lord,” i.e., “accepting” his redemptive work without recognizing his person and sovereign rule over the entirety of life. This is a scriptural impossibility (Acts 2:36; Rom. 10:9–10, 2 Cor. 4:51251; Rom. 10:14–151252; 2 Cor. 5:14–171253). Salvation does not—cannot—come through “receiving”or “accepting” the “Christ” of one’s own imagination.

    5. An emotional or irrational faith. This is a “faith” which derives from an existential or subjective religious experience which is divorced from the truth (1 Cor. 15:1–5). It may well have mere facts rather than the very person and work of Christ as its object.

    6.A merely human faith. This is synonymous with mere human trust and is founded upon the faulty theology of man’s alleged “free–will” rather than on Scripture, upon the humanistic premise that “command implies ability” (Rom. 9:16; Eph. 2:8–10).

    7. A faith of great claims or display. This is a “faith” which claims great or outstanding credentials or great works, but in reality is deceptive and self–promoting (Matt. 7:21–23). The only objective alignment for any faith is the inscripturated Word of God.

    8. An evangelical or Gospel faith.
    • It has its proper object—not historical facts, but the Lord Jesus Christ in the fullness and context of his person and work. 5. 6. • •It possesses a distinct and objective character: it is God–engendered, intelligent, has its proper object, is expressed in total commitment, and issues forth in a converted life–style.• This is true, saving faith as expressly revealed and taught in Scripture.


    I have found this helpful in that it clarifies different words and kinds of faith...which part to you like best?
     
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  2. JonC

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    Hey Icon. What book is this?

    (I like the explanation of #7 best, but mostly because it's something I've been studying recently. I think that the deception is not only that those who cry "Lord, Lord" and are met with "I never knew you" appear to be saved but also that these may be self deceived into believing they are).
     
  3. SovereignGrace

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    Blows 'faith is faith' out of the water, non?
     
    #3 SovereignGrace, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
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  4. Iconoclast

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    Some attempts at hiding behind the word faith itself avoid the issue....this link dismantled that false refuge.
    This is a helpful lesson for all who welcome it.
     
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  5. Internet Theologian

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    The only 'innate' thing I had to offer the Christ of God at conversion was my sin for His pardon. He gave me everything else.
     
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  6. Iconoclast

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    It is a book called Calvinism. ...Arminianism..
    By W.R.Downing...

    Found here....SGBCSV....go to the literature section
    There are some free downloads. .

    This Pastor lectures from the Greek texts ...worth the time to read or listen to.
     
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  7. Iconoclast

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    Likewise....my guilt and shameful rebellion for His love and mercy.
     
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  8. Iconoclast

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    I will post the table of contents if I get online later
     
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  9. Iconoclast

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    As promised;

    Revised Edtion, 2007© 2000Morgan Hill, CA 95037271 West Edmundson AvenuePublished by P.I.R.S. Publications
    Delivered as a series of lectures on the nature, history and tenets of both Calvinsim and Arminianism to the congregation of The Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Morgan Hill, California, on the Lord’s Day afternoons in the years 1999 and 2000 by Pastor W. R. Downing. Lectures on Calvinism and Arminianism;

    Table of Content...

    scroll all the way down...there is a big space..lol

     
    #9 Iconoclast, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
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  10. Iconoclast

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    JonC....if you found the page.....download the free writings and outlines.
    I recommend that Baptist Catechism with commentary on that page...he used material from more than 8 historical confessions to compile the data....His commentary is on key greek words....

    the table of contents came out upside down, lol...I have little idea what I am doing, lolEekRoflmao:(;)
     
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  11. SovereignGrace

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    And not one of the opposing side has responded?
     
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  12. JamesL

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    I have not looked yet, but I woder if any of these examples of "fake" faith are actually called faith in scripture?

    I noticed the example "Lord, Lord..." in Matthew 7, but I've never seen where it is said they have faith

    I noticed the citation of James 2:19, but that doesn't say anything about the devil having faith. Is that the extent of his argument? Make examples of those who are never said to have faith?

    Also, concerning #4, why does the author use an eschatological passage as an example of real faith?
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    If you have noticed...whenever solid material is presented....very few will venture into the water....lol.....they will not, because they cannot.
    They have nothing to say....to try and resist these truths which openly will expose the lack of biblical support they have.
    Any post more than a paragraph or two they ignore...lol.WinkWinkWink
    They cannot help but agree as it is solidly biblical, but they do not want to admit it because they are in combat mode....so in the day of battle they hide like an ostritch....or a turtle in the shell....waiting for the rapture to bail them out...

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?...98cc8c64a6fb05dfba4cd523c22d72ado0&ajaxhist=0
     
    #13 Iconoclast, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
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  14. agedman

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    Using your "tag" line. No one word has caused such an avalanche as the word "faith."

    This is one reason for the most part I have somewhat abandoned the use of the word, "faith," and use belief. Although, "belief" may and does get distorted by the abusers, at least I can use the word more pointedly to that which God has provided and causes as the catalyst of change in the heart and mind and expressed with the mouth as confession of belief of salvation occurred. "Faith" is so commonly distorted, that to wade through the tall grass of deception is a tool to distraction by the enemy of the believer witness. By switching words, I can avoid the distractions and better target the listener to the gospel.
     
    #14 agedman, Feb 11, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  15. JamesL

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    **yawn**

    I guess I'll just drop this off again, since it was apparently "missed" by the high-fivin' amen-corner clique.

     
  16. Iconoclast

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    JamesL

    Thanks for you contribution to the thread...I remember how you explained that your thoughts are so advanced that regular people like me could not grasp your thoughtsSneaky
    You were so right! I never get anything out of any of your posts:oops:

    Yes I understand....for such a deep thinker as yourself you cannot understand how we like and amen each others postsThumbsupThumbsup
    It is simple...we are all sinners saved by grace. We know the Lord who saves sinners just like us, so we have a common salvation and the Spirit teaches us what He has taught to other Christians in times past....

    You are too smart to enter in to what we do as we are just average sinners, working people who God has had mercy on......
     
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  17. JamesL

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    So in other words, you like to blow your own self-righteous horn about how your posts are unanswerable, then refuse to answer honest inquiry.

    Good job. I'm sure your father is proud of you
     
  18. agedman

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    Perhaps this is a valid argument.

    However, in listening to preachers and teachers, more often they take the statement someone else made about a reference in which that person applied to "faith" and then using "faith" show that the use was not accurate.

    For example:

    Preacher Joe waxes eloquently about a passage that doesn't mention faith, but Joe uses the word faith throughout his delivery.

    Preacher Fred, having a record of Joe's delivery, takes the same passages as used by Joe and shows that faith was not used in a Scriptural manner applicable to "saving faith" but some other attribute of human generated faith.

    So, Fred has come up with a list of "faith."
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    Your....**yawn** was an honest inquiry?

    Like I said..... I just cannot get anything from your off topic deep philosophical posts where basically you declare everyone in church history is wrong. Then somehow your one or two sentence offerings right the ship.
    The fact remains many who are critical do not engage in the posts when it comes down to it.....
     
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  20. Martin Marprelate

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    Half a million pages? That's what I call a large book! Laugh



    Excellent points, as are the others, but these two especially are what Reformed Pastors need to watch out for within their congregations. A pride in having one's theology right, one's 'i's dotted and 't's crossed, but without a real love for and commitment to the Saviour who rescued us when we were lost in sin and clueless about salvation.
     
    #20 Martin Marprelate, Feb 12, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
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