Featured Saving faith?

Forest · Apr 5, 2012

percho said: ↑

Is Christ in you the hope of glory, acquired because of, the promise of the Spirit which was shed on us?

Compare: Titus 3:5 last phrase & 6 and renewing of the Holy Spirit; Which he (God) shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; WITH Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles (us)
through (in) Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith. (a noun)

That promise of the Spirit is inclusive in the promises made to Abraham and his one seed Christ, See V16 And it is by the Holy Spirit, the inheritance (eternal life) is received, which was by promise See V 18 Titus 1:2 tells of that promise: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

We are joint heirs with Jesus the Christ of the promises of God. If Jesus hasn't first received the promises then we have no hope of receiving them. The promise of the hope of eternal life was made for Jesus and then for us only if he received first, through faith. He became sin for us and died with only the promise of hope of eternal life. THAT TOOK FAITH. Luke 22:42-44 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Did the strength from the angel help much? continue) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (We can only imagine, or can we, the agony of striving against sin to this degree) Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Did Jesus receive the promise of the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit,

If Jesus the Christ has not inherited we have no hope of inheriting.

We by the faith of Jesus the Christ have hope through the gift of the Holy Spirit of God, having being shed upon us. Rom 8:23-25 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

But we see Jesus (who has inherited) the substance of the things hoped for:
The Faith.
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These scriptures do not tell us that we have faith before we are regenerated, born again, but they do support the fact that we receive faith after regeneration. Tit 3:5-6, God saved us by the washing of regeneration, born again, quickened to a new life, given the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ. Eph 2:5, When God quickens us we are quickened together with Christ. If we are IN CHRIST we have been quickened together with Christ, Eph 2:5. Romans 8:1 Paul is addressing those who are in Christ, regenerated. verse 23 even stating that they have the first fruits of the Spirit. Gal 5, the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH, meekness, temperance. Regenweration comes before spiritual faith.

Forest · Apr 5, 2012

seekingthetruth said: ↑

OK, I am neither Cal nor Arminian and maybe that is why I dont understand either position.

You keep using the term "elect" which is probably my biggest misunderstanding of both Cal/Arm positions. i believe the elect are nothing more than the body of Christ. Not specifically chosen, but rewarded with mercy and Grace for exercising their God given faith.

But if we say that we are incapable of faith, then the faith has to come from somewhere??? It has to come from God. So far, I am with you. But??? If God only gives this faith to some and withholds it from others, doesnt that mean that He has more faith in one person than another?

I believe that God gives us all a measure of faith at birth and that it is up to us to use it. When we use it, the HS grows it.

But if we are born with zero capability of having faith in God, then isnt any faith that God gives us His to begin with? Which boils down to God's favotites. Why in turn means the ones He has faith in. It's God's faith before He gives it to us, so if we believe the Cal position of election, then our salvation is based on God's faith in us since we cannot have faith in Him.

John
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To be elected means to be chosen. Elect and chosen are interchangeable.

percho · Apr 5, 2012

Forest said: ↑

These scriptures do not tell us that we have faith before we are regenerated, born again, but they do support the fact that we receive faith after regeneration. Tit 3:5-6, God saved us by the washing of regeneration, born again, quickened to a new life, given the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ. Eph 2:5, When God quickens us we are quickened together with Christ. If we are IN CHRIST we have been quickened together with Christ, Eph 2:5. Romans 8:1 Paul is addressing those who are in Christ, regenerated. verse 23 even stating that they have the first fruits of the Spirit. Gal 5, the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH, meekness, temperance. Regenweration comes before spiritual faith.
Click to expand...

Really what those scriptures tell you is that Jesus and presently Jesus alone is the firstborn from the dead and you by having been given the gift of the Holy Spirit have been put in a covenant relationship with Jesus the only one so born from the dead, the Holy Spirit quickens you in him. It begets you to be born again by the resurrection from the dead or be changed
at his coming as he was.

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