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Say What?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    ? Anybody that views the video can look out her window and see the building standing there plain as day.
     
  2. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Where was the video shot from. A helicopter, I bet. The view from the air would be much different from the view on the ground or even the top of another building.
     
  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Um, all those words in blue that are underlined in my first two posts are links to various articles and, in those articles are links to the videos in question as well as testimony from first responders and eye witnesses at the scene. Click on em and watch/listen for yourself. :type:
     
    #23 poncho, Mar 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2007
  4. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    [/quote]

    DeeJay,

    If you watch the video and listen closely, the BBC tells you that only 8 hours has passed since the attack. Now, if the smoke and debris did not clear up enough for people to see for a couple days, we have a serious problem still. Because it is clear that the building is still standing in the video.

    And it is not from a helicopter, it is in a room with a window not too far from the site.
     
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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  6. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

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    So, who was behind 9-11?

    It couldn't have been the stupidest president ever. If it was Bush, less than half of the American people even like him, the rest of the world hates him, even the news media forged documents in an attempt to keep him from getting re-elected. So, why aren't all the Bush haters in the world jumping on this information. IT'S A STINKIN' GOLDMINE!!!

    So, who was behind 9-11?
     
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Do you live in NY? Are you familiar with the buildings of the WTC? Were you there on 9/11?? There was mass confusion. The buildings are not marked with numbers - WTC#1, WTC#2, etc. Not every reporter was familiar with which building was which. Building 7 was not reported to be on fire until 4:10 PM and it collapsed at 5:20. An hour and 10 minutes. Many of the buildings that were affected still had parts of the building still standing - but the insides collapsed. The front of WTC #7 was very damaged beforehand and it would be hard to know that it was, in fact, building #7 at that time. The streets were so strewn with debris and dust that it is totally conceivable for that kind of an error to take place. We watched the south tower collapse and the reporters on TV couldn't figure out what was happening because of the cloud of dust. The whole idea that they KNEW it was going to collapse is such an unbelievable accusation. It just goes to show that one is born every day.
     
  8. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    There is no sense worrying about the who when you are not convinced of the what. The first steps are to evaluate the story you have been told and compare that against the available evidence. If the story matches the evidence (the evidence that has not been carted away at least), then you can go back to your regularly scheduled life. If it doesn't, then something else is going on and you can consider why was it done, what was the motive, who had the ability to pull it off, who had the ability to cover it up and who benefited from it? What was life like pre-9/11 and how has it changed since? All of these are good questions but they come after you figure out what happened. Once you begin to ask those questions and follow the truth, no matter where it takes you, then you'll start getting closer to understanding that the Bible is very true and we're getting closer to the back of the book.
     
  9. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    come on ann,

    a building with steel structure such as the Salomon building that was 47 stories is not going to come down in an hour and 10 minutes of fire damage.

    I can show documented evidence of buildings smaller than that that burned for much longer before falling.
     
  10. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    OK - I watched the video, and was thinking back to that day. We ALSO got the report that it collapsed (after getting the report that it was on fire), then they corrected that and said that it was on fire and was in DANGER of collapse (since there were no firefighters worried about it). Again, there was mass confusion - the news that day was so sketchy - you'd hear that there were tens of thousands killed - then less - that there were rescues when there weren't - all sorts of things. That video was not exactly clear IMO - there was a lot of debris in the air still - there was debris and smoke in the air for DAYS (I'm 30 miles from the WTC - and was downwind the next day - we had dust on my patio, so it WAS still there that afternoon).

    Again, I think that there are stupid people on the internet that will catch on to anything they possibly can and they can make it totally seem like truth with just a little work. We're dealing with this with an issue on the internet regarding our church and some members right now and I just wish people would get a life and get some REAL stories with the TRUTH in them.
     
  11. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    maybe some need to face the truth? That there are too many unanswered questions concerning that day?

    Things Bush said in the schoolroom the morning of the event...

    The fact that the planes upon looking at them in closeup stills did not look like they were passenger planes...

    The slight explosion on the side of one of the towers before the plane actually hit...

    The fact that there was something carried under one plane was evident from videos...

    Too many unanswered questions.
     
  12. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

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    Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yea - but did they have massive gashes to their structure - including the exterior supports that each supported 2000 square feet? The big gash in the south facade of building 7 was 10 stories and went across the building about 1/3 of the way - and went into the building approximately 1/4 of the way. You can read the entire Interim Report on WTC7. by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (June 2004) here: http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf Make sure you read about the cracking and bowing that was visible BEFORE the collapse.

    Yes - buildings don't normally collapse in one hour 10 minutes, but they also don't usually have such catastrophic damage. Facts prove themselves out.
     
  14. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    That building did not collapse the way most buildings do when they collapse. That building collapsed just as all do that are imploded.

    The same with the towers, evidence of implosion is quite visible.

    The buildings did not topple, they collapsed straight down as implosions do.
     
  15. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

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    Anyone have any idea how many people and how much time it takes to prepare a building for implosion?

    BTW, I am a conspiracy nut at heart, I just have a hard time believing this one could be pulled off without some supernatural help.
     
  16. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    The following is a partial list of individuals who have signed their names to a petition for real answers to 9/11 and a new investigation. There are many with doctorates, authors, presidential candidates, members of congress etc. Do you discount all of them as being stupid people that got caught up browing web sites?

    1. Virginia Deane Abernethy, Ph.D., anthropologist, author, Population Politics
    2. Ed Asner, actor, activist
    3. Marshall Auerback, international portfolio strategist for David W. Tice & Associates, Inc.
    4. Catherine Austin Fitts, Asst. Secretary of Housing in the first Bush administration
    5. Keidi Obi Awadu, aka The Conscious Rasta, talk show host, LIBRadio
    6. Michael Badnarik, Libertarian candidate for President
    7. Byron Belitsos, publisher, Origin Press, author Planetary Democracy
    8. Philip J. Berg, Esquire, former deputy attorney general, Pennsylvania
    9. Medea Benjamin, activist, author, co-founder, Global Exchange and Code Pink
    10. Dennis Bernstein, investigative reporter, radio host of KPFA's Flashpoints
    11. Steve Bhaerman aka Swami Beyondananda, author, political comedian
    12. Brad Blanton, Ph.D., psychotherapist, author, Radical Honesty
    13. Saniel Bonder, spiritual teacher and author, Great Relief
    14. Dr. Robert Bowman, USAF Lt. Col. (Rtd.), founder, Institute for Space and Security Studies
    15. John Buchanan, author, candidate for the Republican Party Presidential nomination, 2004
    16. Gray Brechin, Ph.D., author, environmental historian, professor, UC Berkeley
    17. Fred Burks, presidential interpreter for Bush, Clinton, Cheney, and Gore
    18. Norma Carr-Rufino, Ph.D., author, professor of management, San Francisco State University
    19. Angana Chatterji, Ph.D., scholar-activist and professor of anthropology
    20. Paul Cienfuegos, co-founder, Democracy Unlimited of Humboldt County
    21. David Cobb, attorney, national presidential candidate, US Green Party
    22. John Cobb, Ph.D., theologian, co-author, For the Common Good
    23. Ernest Callenbach, founder/editor, Film Quarterly, author, Ecotopia
    24. Kevin Danaher, Ph.D., author, speaker, co-founder, Global Exchange
    25. Stephen Dinan, author, Radical Spirit
    26. Bill Doyle, advocate for 9/11 families, father of Joseph Doyle, Cantor Fitzgerald employee
    27. Ronnie Dugger, journalist/author, co-founder, Alliance for Democracy
    28. Rachel Ehrenfeld, Ph.D., Director, American Center for Democracy, author, Funding Evil
    29. Daniel Ellsberg, author, Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers
    30. Jodie Evans, president, Code Pink
    31. Richard Falk, Professor Emeritus of International Law, Princeton University
    32. Michael Franti, musician, filmmaker, human rights worker
    33. Jim Garrison, Ph.D., president, State of the World Forum, author, America as Empire
    34. Bruce Gagnon, Chair, Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space
    35. Ric Giardina, author, consultant, speaker, former Director of Trademarks and Brands for Intel
    36. John Gray, Ph.D., #1 bestselling author, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus
    37. Stan Goff, 25-year Army Special Ops veteran, author, Full Spectrum Disorder
    38. Melvin Goodman, senior fellow, Center for International Policy, author, former Senior Analyst, CIA, professor, National War College
    39. Morton Goulder, Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter
    40. David Ray Griffin, Ph.D., theologian, author, New Pearl Harbor
    41. Doris "Granny D" Haddock, campaign finance crusader, NH Democratic candidate for Senate
    42. Thom Hartmann, radio host; author, Unequal Protection
    43. Richie Havens, singer, songwriter, performer, artist
    44. Paul Hawken, bestselling author, environmentalist, entrepreneur, founder of Smith & Hawken
    45. Randy Hayes, founder, Rainforest Action Network, US National Director, Direction Conservation
    46. Richard Heinberg, author, The Party's Over, core faculty, New College of California
    47. Van Jones, executive director, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights
    48. Rob Kall, editor, OpEdNews.com, president, Futurehealth, Inc.
    49. Georgia Kelly, executive director, Praxis Peace Institute
    50. Sean Kelly, Ph.D., author, professor of philosophy and religion, CA Institute of Integral Studies

    http://www.wanttoknow.info/911statement
     
  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Bush isn't stupid far from it and not everyone who disagrees with him hate him. I can understand how it would be to his benefit that everyone does think he's stupid though. Our government and those who own it namely the special interests have constantly used the "oops we're so dumb" excuse to control public opinion and centralize power and wealth into fewer and fewer hands. It's time tested and works everytime mainly because people find it easier to believe everything that "goes wrong" must be because of a mistake or stupidity
    instead of a plan.

    Leaving the borders open for instance isn't a mistake it isn't because our leaders are stupid it's because they've adopted the CFR plan to integrate our country with two others to form the North American Union. Having us believe the borders are open because of stupidity or because they (the repubs or dems) want the extra votes benefits them and clouds the real issue of why we're integrating our country with others without congressional review or the peoples consent or knowledge in the first place.

    Simly put it's better for our leaders to have us think they are stupid and inept rather than decietful and designing.

    As for the media they are first and foremost controlled by who owns them a handful of conglomerated transnational corporations who's bottom line is profit not truth. If there is a big story like this they want to bury then you get Britney shaving her head or who gets Anna's body 24/7. Or when Bush signed Patriot Act 2 it was drowned out by the capture of Saddam not many people even know there is more than one Patritot Act to this day.

    The liberals are more concerned about a republicans bad hair day then questioning who gave the BBC and CNN the script of the WTC 7 collapse half an hour before it actually happened.

    As far as who was really behind 9/11...who stands to benefit most? Who helped in the cover up? Who had an agenda of world domination through military force and intimidation and a pre emptive war doctrine that would have never come to fruition without a 9/11 type event? Who admited as much in their own policy papers and documents years before the event?
     
  18. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yup - pretty much. :D
     
  19. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

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    Why do all the conservative radio talk show hosts "vacation" at the same time? :eek:

    Poncho, you make some very compelling arguments, and many of these same things do make me suspicious. However, it is very difficult for me to believe 9/11 could have been a government conspiracy. It could be argued that they saw it coming and looked the other way, because it played right into their hands. I don't know, but why should I fear, God is not terrorized by these things.
     
  20. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Here's an essay written by David Ray Griffen it begins like this...

    One way to understand the effect of 9/11, in most general terms, is to see that it allowed the agenda developed in the 1990s by neoconservatives—-often called simply “neocons”---to be implemented. There is agreement on this point across the political spectrum. From the right, for example, Stefan Halper and Jonathan Clarke say that 9/11 allowed the “preexisting ideological agenda” of the neoconservatives to be “taken off the shelf . . . and relabeled as the response to terror.”1 Stephen Sniegoski, writing from the left, says that “it was only the traumatic effects of the 9/11 terrorism that enabled the agenda of the neocons to become the policy of the United States of America.”2

    What was this agenda? It was, in essence, that the United States should use its military supremacy to establish an empire that includes the whole world--a global Pax Americana. Three major means to this end were suggested. One of these was to make U.S. military supremacy over other nations even greater, so that it would be completely beyond challenge. This goal was to be achieved by increasing the money devoted to military purposes, then using this money to complete the “revolution in military affairs” made possible by the emergence of the information age. The second major way to achieve a global Pax Americana was to announce and implement a doctrine of preventive-preemptive war, usually for the sake of bringing about “regime change” in countries regarded as hostile to U.S. interests and values. The third means toward the goal of universal empire was to use this new doctrine to gain control of the world’s oil, especially in the Middle East, most immediately Iraq.




    Neocon Imperialism, 9/11, and the Attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq


    And here is a list of...

    Click Here.

    Are all of these people stupid tin foil hatters? Well, I guess maybe to those who want desperately to believe the official conspiracy theory and to shut out any information that doesn't line up neatly with their tidy coincidence theory they are.:smilewinkgrin:
    There is no reason to be fearful. But to my way of thinking there is plenty reason to be angry that we have been manipulated and lied to for who knows how long by those we entrust with our safety and general welfare. They want us to be fearful, they want us to feel like we are alone and powerless, they want us divided and they want us ignorant to the evil they have been doing in our names. The free flow of information that is the world wide web has taken away the ability of those who have traditionally benefited from controlling information before it gets to us very nervous because we can fact check and research more information faster and easier than ever before and they are at a loss as to what to do to regain that control. That's why we hear such things as "bloggers are terrorists" and "if you aren't with us you are against us" baloney and of course the now famous Bush quote "We must speak the truth about terror. Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty." (<-link) The truth is the truth scares the pants off them and that's why propaganda now passes for news and anyone that doesn't tow the official line is demonized and marginalized in the most outrageous (and now transparent) ways possible.
     
    #40 poncho, Mar 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2007
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