Saying what you believe is clearer than saying Calvinist

Love the image Winman. :laugh::laugh:

 

Thanks Winman and yes, I can see your point of logic.

But personally, I think asking God "why" He does something is a wrong path to take though I have often wondered that myself in some cases.

e.g. Why did God create Lucifer knowing full well what would happen?

I know the stock answer - for His glory - I just can't see the logic in
light of all the sin and death, pain, suffering, disease, the crucifixion, etc, etc...

Could He not have created the final result of the eternal state and by-pass the evil and misery part?

But it's not required of me to figure it out, so my answer is I don't know why God does some things which might seem illogical to me.

Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?​

HankD​

 

Well, I think the answer is what so many deny, then we can choose. I do not believe God wants robots that have no choice but to love and obey him, he wants people (and even angels) who choose him willingly. This is why I do not agree that God could have created us and the angels without choice. Without choice there is no true love, and God is love (1 John 4:8,16).

And really, I think that is what this life is all about, God is giving every man the choice whether to love him or not. He does not force himself upon anyone. But he has already shown his great love toward us in that he gave his only Son to die for our sins. That's a pretty good reason to love him.

 

Winman, why is it that you cannot simply read and comprehend that HYPER-CALVINISM is not Calvinism. You are either:

1) Dense,
2) Challenged in your ability to read and comprehend
3) A liar

Which is it?

Anyone who wishes can discover that hyper-Calvinism is not historical nor biblical Calvinism any more than Pelagianism is not historical nor biblical Arminianism.

To say otherwise leads to the conclusions I draw above.

 

I am simply saying that it is a false argument to accuse non-Cals of misrepresenting or misunderstanding Calvinism when those who claim to be Calvinist (not Hyper-Calvinist) do not all hold the same views. A man may say he is a Calvinist, another Calvinist may consider him a Hyper-Calvinist, or not a Calvinist at all.

For example Pinoybaptist says he is a Calvinist, but his views are very different from others here who say they are Calvinist.

So, there is no way to exactly pin down what Calvinism is, there are many various views among those who call themselves Calvinists. If you make a statement that truly represents one person's view of Calvinism, another Calvinist will say you misrepresent the doctrine.

This is not difficult to understand, and you know it is true.

 

That's a bit harsh. I don't really see the need for that. God is good it's a great day, let's love each other.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

No, actually that was quite mild as a rebuke. Winman constantly and consistently misrepresents the position of Calvinism. By now, it has to be intentional, for he has been informed over and again.

 

No, that was very HARSH, especially from someone who claims to be a "Bi-vocational pastor".

 

I wasn't questioning your rebuke, just the way you went about it. As the rules of posting state unbelievers visit this site. What will they see when they visit?

 

I wonder that all the time.

 

Amen brother.
That's John 3:16.

I guess it comes down to the mechanics (for lack of a better word) of the ability to choose/love.

I look at it this way in this comparison:

I read that it takes 40,000 lbs of thrust to turn a jet liner.
Without the power of the aircraft steering system no human pilot could turn the aircraft around.

Without the power of the Holy Spirit no human being could come to Christ.

I do believe that the power provided by His death, burial and resurrection is made available to every human being through the Spirit should he/she want it. (scripture to follow).

John 1

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.​

Here in this passage the responsibity of man and the sovereignty of God come together (clash seems a better word).
If we receive Him (implying choice) then we have this power given to us.
But then we are immediately told that it was by the will of God and not our own will.​

John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.​

Here again there is another view of our responsibility as related to His sovereignty.
Humanity is viewed as loving darkness and are condemned for and held responsible for it.
God did not make them that way but provides the remedy.​

Those who do come to the light are declared as having been wrought (caused) by God.​

The light of the gospel is the present tense determining factor as to who is who.​

IMO, all these posts are an attempt to explain the unexplainable, after all He is God and we are not.​

In the end, we all put our stamp of approval on what we are.
Whether we love darkness or light.​

And those who love the light whether C or A, we can all say:​

Corinthians 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.​

HankD​

 

Hank, there is no clash. The gospel was God's idea, it was of his will. Man, if left to himself will always seek to save himself through his own merit. Man believes he can be good enough to earn his own salvation. Man would never conceive of the gospel if he lived a million years. So, the gospel is 100% of God alone.

It is God's word and especially the gospel that revealed to all of us that we are sinners and incapable of saving ourselves. It is the scriptures that showed us Jesus his son died for our sins, and told us if we believe on him we shall be saved.

I chose to believe on Jesus, but I could never have done that if God's word had not convicted me of my sin and showed me I could trust Jesus and be saved. Paul asked, "and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" (Rom 10:14)

So, God gets all the credit.

There is no clash whatsoever.

 

Do you believe the scriptures are the word of God? God does not call everyone.

 

Except you do not understand foreknowledge. The god you describe must look forward to learn something.

 

Why did you not respond to post 11?

 

Pinoybaptist can speak for himself. However, I think he has never identified himself as a Calvinist. He grants that there is some soteriological intersection,but also some distinct differences he has with Calvinism proper.

You have a history on the BB of continiously saying false things about Calvinism/Calvinists.

 

Nice quote....:thumbsup: read more calvin.

 

Here is some from the 1689 confession of faith