SBC and the BWA

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Clint Kritzer, Aug 6, 2002.

  1. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer
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    I was perusing the web looking for an answer to an inquiry on another forum and ran across this very interesting article from the Way of Life website:

    http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/sbcreaffirms.htm

    The article states certain accusations against the Baptist World Alliance and the affiliation with the SBC seems very counter to the modern leadership's policy. I wondered if any of you may have any thoughts or facts of which David Cloud was unaware.
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    Just because we work with someone else toward a tightly defined set of common goals does not make us responsible for their sin, their lack of faith or their opinions.

    This "guilt by association" argument was used against Jesus and has been used to injure, malign and destroy people for hundreds of years. The only value of this kind of thinking is that it makes the one who holds it feel more self-righteous. Unfortunately, the self-righteousness numbs that person to God.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    I cannot imagine what would motivate an intelligent human being to visit David Cloud's site! :rolleyes:

    Maybe that would make a thread all of its own!
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

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    Is what he said true ? Did bishop Tutu speak at the BWA in '88 ?

    "In 1999, Baptist World Alliance General Secretary Denton Lotz urged Baptists to accept the Charismatic Movement. He said, "We need to get over our hang-up of the use of the word 'charismatic'..." He praised the Charismatic Movement for rediscovering "the power and work of the Holy Spirit." In reality, the Charismatic Movement preaches a false spirit that is not the Spirit of Truth of the Bible."

    Is this staement accurate ?

    "In September 2000, the Baptist World Alliance opened official dialogue with the Anglican Consultative Council to "foster common understanding between the two religious groups" and to see if they "could find common ground to work together in various aspects of the ministry." Evangelist Don Jasmin observes: "This is the same Anglican Church which is seeking reunion with the Roman Catholic Church and whose leadership has already agreed to accept the primacy of the Pope" (Fundamentalist Digest, March-April 2001, p. 12)."

    Did this happen ?

    "Brutal Marxist dictator Fidel Castro, who has persecuted and restricted the churches of Jesus Christ in Cuba for decades, was a speaker at the Baptist World Alliance meeting in July 2000."

    This is crazy. Why would they let him speak ?

    "The unscriptural ecumenical philosophy of the Baptist World Alliance is illustrated by that of its member body the American Baptist Convention. An ABC publication entitled "Oneness in Christ: American Baptists Are Ecumenical" leaves no doubt about their position. This publication was compiled and edited by the "Reverend" Martha Barr, former Assistant General Secretary and Ecumenical Officer of the ABC. "We American Baptists run the whole theological range -- fundamentalists, conservative orthodox, liberal ... Maybe it is partly because American Baptists are so inclusive that we affirm that we are ecumenical. ... We do not have creedal statements. We can worship and work with Episcopalian and Pentecostal, with Roman Catholic and Orthodox." "

    I didn't see anyone answer Clint's question, nobody refuted any of his claims, nobody posted any mistakes he made, nobody put up any contrary evidence at all, the just like to slam brother Cloud. I suspect the reason people don't like him is because they have been blinded. He points out apostasy, it is his entire mission. I commend him for it.

    I have met him, a few times, and found him to be very friendly. He likes sports, he knows a lot about music, and is passionate about fishing.

    But he does make ecumenical religeous groups uncomfortable, don't he ?
     
  5. Baptist Believer

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    Because they met in Havana, Cuba. BWA leaders were trying to open doors of opportunity for religious liberty in Cuba and privately met with Castro to discuss their concerns. I do not know what Castro spoke about, but it could have been anything from a welcome to the BWA to a speech about the nature of religion in Cuba. (I know someone who was supposed to go on that trip -- with the State Department's approval -- but cancelled at the last minute because of the tension because of the Elian Gonzalez controversy.

    His "evidence" is irrelevent, even if it is all true. He makes it sound like the BWA condones every view held by persons who speak at the meetings, which is ridiculous.

    I'm not especially ecumenical, but I don't care for the presupposition that association with someone makes you guilty of the same sin before God. It is patently unbiblical.
     
  6. Clint Kritzer

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    My problem with the whole issue is that the money reportedly given by the SBC is confirmed in a Baptist Press article from 1997. I got this off of the SBC website: http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebpnews%2Enet%2Fprinterfriendly%2Easp%3FID%3D4069&key=Baptist+World+Alliance&title=Studies+of+annual+meeting%2C+BWA+approved+b y+Executive+Committee+%2D+%28BP%29&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

    This affects me even closer to home because of this related article from the same source concerning the Baptist General Assembly of Virginia: http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebpnews%2Enet%2Fprinterfriendly%2Easp%3FID%3D4757&key=Baptist+World+Alliance&title=Va%2E+Baptists+strengthen+Baptist+World+All iance+ties+%2D+%28BP%29&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

    This is all old information, however, and I wondered if there had been any updates on the contributions made to the BWA by the SBC.

    This is not a matter of SBC bashing, nor David Cloud bashing. This is a matter of the money given by my fellow church members and I going to support this type of ecumenical misiion field.

    I have already had my problems with the BGAV: http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000216&p=

    I personally believe that ecumenicism is one of the greatest threats facing our churches today and if I am dropping money in an offering plate every Sunday, I have a right to expect those that control that money to be accountable.

    I am not here to beat up on anyone or any one group. I just wondered if there was any additional info on this affiliation that is current.
     
  7. rsr

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    Whatever the merits, I don't think these will be issues much longer.

    See link from Clint below.

    I understand your worries about certain brands of ecumenism, but the BWA has been a strong voice for persecuted Christians, particularly Baptists.

    [ August 07, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  8. Clint Kritzer

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  9. rsr

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    Yes, Clint, that's it. I've removed my link.
     
  10. Squire Robertsson

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    bold added by me.

    Please pardon me while I quit choking. From an EC-B perspective, the BWA supported the official, government sponsored, KGB infiltrated All Union Council of Evangelical Christian-Baptist Churchs of the USSR.
     
  11. Bob Alkire

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    Clint, I think I know how you feel. I believe everyone has the right and duty to do as the Holy Spirit leads. Some time I wonder if alot of us are silence long enough to be lead!!!
    Where the money went is why I had to leave the SBC in the late 60's. I didn't support the schools that our money was supporting along with other things.
    With the above said, their are many SBC preachers and folks that I love what they have done for the Body of Christ.
     
  12. rsr

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  13. Bro. Curtis

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    In complete agreement here, Clint.
    I will be looking at this thread to see if anyone posts any answers to the original question.

    And a side note to Doctor Bob, it was a link from Brother Cloud's site that led me to this board [​IMG]

    [ August 08, 2002, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]
     

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