SBC Minimum Education for Pastors

It may also depend on the flock for which GOD called the man to lead. You get a guy with a PHd in front of a lowly educated congregation and you may have a problem.

Many of preachers of old had no education but had memorized the bible. They pastored, lead folks to Christ etc... I know that wouldn't work too well today but it is because the people have more education now.

 

Campbell University offers a joint MDiv/MBA degree program through their Divinity school. That is slightly different from the MA/MBA program you mention (and I agree) but it is a program that combines theology and business.

Campbell has a beautiful campus and it is Southern Baptist. However the school is not as conservative as Southeastern (etc) and they offer no online programs.

 

However the school is not as conservative as Southeastern (etc) and they offer no online programs.

from my experience they are not awfully conservative at all. I couldn't recommend it to someone, but that's just me of course.

The MA/MBA would certainly have its benefits if the MA was highly theological and designed to teach the applicant to think for themselves. Too much of the current MDiv work at too many seminaries is recapitulation of theologial brainwashing. Best thing I ever got do with my MDiv was to work outside the set curriculum

 

A truly great leader & expositor would mold his teaching & preaching to the level of the congregation. So having a PhD would not hurt him. Nor would not having a PhD.

IMHO.

 

I served on our church pastor search committee when we called our current pastor to what was then a brand new church plant with a Sunday morning worship attendance of 100. We chose not to limit our search to a particular degree or level of education though considering our location and the potential type of people that the church would draw, we knew we needed someone who had a strong educational background, combined with strong spiritual gifts in administration and relationships.

We received over 500 names of potential candidates in less than a month's time.

The "priority list" from the congregation, regarding their perception of needs of the church, included someone who was extremely gifted in Biblical languages, who was a strong "teaching" pastor with experience working in a church full of Gen X and Baby Boomer adults mostly under 45 with very little knowledge or exposure to the Bible. We wanted someone who was knowledgeable with the various theological veins of Christianity in order to be able to work with people in the church from just about every Christian background. We wanted someone who would be able to lead the church in discipleship ministry as it grew, and help the members of the congregation develop a working theology for both the church and for themselves in order to be able to share their faith and make new disciples.

Not much to ask, huh? It was amazing how the list of names came down to one candidate in a relatively short period of time. We got a guy with an EdD a DMin and a MDiv with a BA in Church History, and at the salary we were offering at the time, it was a coup. His EdD was from a secular school but he got his MDiv at Wake Forest Divinity School and his DMin at BTS Richmond. Those are supposed to be "liberal" schools, but what we've found is a pastor who knows his stuff, can teach it as well as anyone I've ever met, and was as academically and spiritually prepared as any pastor I've known. He's not a liberal at all, and he's dispelled any idea I had that going to a school with a liberal reputation makes one liberal.

What really impressed me was the number of different theological schools and seminaries represented by this group of "Baptist" pastoral candidates. I had no idea. In terms of enthusiasm for the type of ministry we had to offer, and the strong academic preparation on the discipleship/teaching side of the pastorate, I wasn't impressed by the candidates from any of the six SBC schools we interviewed. Nor did any of them express much of an interest in serving a brand new church meeting in a school, especially after they found out how much we could pay. However, out of that group of 500, and of the 22 or so that we actually narrowed down and eventually contacted, the majority, though Southern Baptists in their identity and church membership, were going to schools that were not related to either the SBC or state convention bodies. And I have to say that the most enthusiastic, evangelistic, academically and spiritually prepared candidates came largely from schools which most Baptists would consider "liberal" or at least, not in the conservative camp. I was very impressed by the quality of the guys we interviewed from Truett Theological Seminary. The one "conservative" seminary that stood out in this particular group was Grand Rapids Baptist.

 

I really want to agree with your assessment. And I realize that your assessment is probably correct.

But, I it scares me that SBC seminary men would want more money than those from other seminaries.

 

Well, out of the 22 we contacted, 7 were graduates of SBC schools, so our experience is probably not representative of all graduates of SBC seminaries. The SBC seminary grads weren't the only ones who wrinkled their noses when the salary issue came up. We actually had one guy who folded his daytimer, put out his hand, thanked us for our time and walked out of the room when we told him what we were paying, and he was a graduate of a well known independent, fundamentalist seminary that everyone would know if I mentioned it.

I think several of the candidates were also thinking about the possibility of having to lead a church through a capital campaign and a building project at some point in the future as well. We were blessed to get the guy who was looking for exactly what we had to offer. It was simply a matter of finding the guy that God wanted us to have. If you are not going to be able to make it on what you're going to get paid, then that may be a sign that God wants you somewhere else.

I think what made our pastor prepared for his ministry here is that he got his training at three different schools, rather than at one place, and was exposed to a variety of teaching styles, theological positions and approaches to ministry that demanded he continually clarify his own position.

 

I'm relatively new to this message board thing, so the rapid contact with other Baptists and Christians and their perspective on things can sometimes be surprising. There is a persistent theme here, especially in threads regarding seminaries, of people only wanting to go to the one school that will support their already developed presuppositions, rather than desiring to go somewhere that will challenge them and make them dig in and give them the opportunity to discover on their own and actually learn something about God. Staying inside the same small box not only limits your options, and keeps you from learning something that may be more truthful than what you think you already know, but it also limits God, since he is also imprisoned in the same box. They are seeking indoctrination, not education. I wonder how successful I would be in law practice if I had taken the attitude that I already knew as much about practicing as I needed to know before I went to law school.

I'm all for a church paying a pastor to the best of their ability, and I understand as much as anyone in my church about the burden of college loan payoffs. I went to Belmont University for undergrad work and deferred my student loans while I went to law school at Vanderbilt and tripled them in three years. I just paid the last one off six months ago, on the 20th anniversary of the date of taking out the first one. What we paid at the outset would have been enough for a pastor with a student loan debt to make some progress paying it off without having to live by eating grass. We were willing to go the extra mile in any case. What was surprising to me was that some of the candidates didn't appear to be. Several didn't care for the suggestion that their wife could also work. There were a few who came to the interview in a vehicle that was well beyond the means of the man who would be our pastor. One candidate was working on a fifth child, and several, including some who insisted on their wives staying at home, had four. Several insisted that their kids needed to attend private Christian school.

 

I can barely restrain myself from some sort of "I told you so" response. I have yet to meet a liberal, if one uses the technically correct definition of low Christology and weak anthropology, from one of the alternative Baptist seminaries. I serve on the Board of Trustees of one such school (John Leland Center) and have friendship ties with people at BTSR and Wake Forest (to which my late father-in-law gave the bulk of his personal library), and know that these schools involve dedicated, classic exponents of the Christian gospel. No, they are not likely to be inerrantists. But they do know the Lord, they do take the Bible seriously, and they do love the church. I am delighted that you have made the discovery you have made, as there are going to be more and more servant-pastors coming out of the alternative seminaries in the years to come.

 

Would somebody tell me what happened to the principle that Christ laid for us?

How many of the disciples were college educated? Perhaps two? Paul and Luke.

What happened to God calling and men obeying?

I've always heard that "God doesn't called the qualified, He qualifies the called."

I have been a Christian for nearly half of my 44 years and when God called me to preach, I could not afford a Seminary college such as Southeastern which is about 100 miles from where I live, instead I started attending seminary extension classes. Yet here in the Piedmont of NC, unless you are under 40, have a MDiv or Phd, you will not be accepted as a Pastor. That is sad when true men of God are called to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and churches won't call them because they don't meet the "minimun qualifications." No wonder the church is such a bad shape today.

Out of the original twelve who walked and talked with Christ, only one would have been considered an educated man. And that was the tax collector Matthew. And if memory serves me correctly, the least educated of the twelve became one of the greatest of the twelve: Peter. The early church fathers believed that Peter, the fisherman, had no more than what we would call a sixth grade education.

When we start looking at the qualifications rather than the genuine calling that Christ put on a man, we are in serious trouble in my humble opinion.


Till all are one.

 

Jesus spent three years with his 12 disciples, as well as others who were part of that group. While they didn't have a formal education at the highest level available in their day, three years of walking and learning from Christ was a pretty good seminary education. Aside from that, having been raised in the synagogue would have been as good a foundational formal education as anyone could have had in that day, including the memorization of vast passages of scripture. It's not exactly accurate to say that his disciples were "unlearned" or "uneducated."

The Apostle Paul, who is arguably the most effective missionary in Christian history, was highly educated, something he used to his advantage in sharing the gospel.

The pastor of what I consider my "home" church, a Disciples of Christ congregation in West Virginia, conducts what he calls a "ministry workshop" on an educational calendar during the fall and spring on Monday nights from 7-9 p.m. for those in the church who feel a calling or may be thinking they feel a calling to ministry. He teaches some basic principles and skills, they do scripture memorization and Bible study, and discuss the service of a minister in the church. Most of those in the group are high school and college students. It's sort of like a mentoring group, actually, that's exactly what it is. He has some people who have been part of each group he conducts for four or five years, while others are new. From what I've seen of it, it's very beneficial.

 

God will guide the saved preacher into where He wants the preacher to go and how much of said education the preacher will need.

The SBC needs to disband and get back to a Bible-based local church setup. I grew up in the SBC and it is horrible how it is run. Churches giving money to some unscriptural organization, never meeting the missionaries it supports, giving money in the name of some former woman "preacher," etc.

Don't get me started. For the preacher, let God guide you and not some rule book.

Am I anti-education? No, God willing I'd like to pursue a PhD in New Testament Interpretation if God so wills. If God wants me to stop after college, that's fine as well.

 

So Jack

As you compare SBC (or Baptists in General) with the Disciples what are some of the major drawbacks to our educational system?

Thanks

Wayne

 

Well, I only spent about four years as a member of a D of C congregation before joining a Baptist church as a college student, and didn't attend a D of C seminary, so I'm not sure I could answer your question or make a comparison. I do know that Disciples congregations are very educationally oriented, and that students preparing for the ministry get a lot of financial assistance. They are a lot like Baptists in many ways, particularly in local church autonomy, and I would guess that their pastors and leadership is trained in a wide variety of schools, mostly related to mainline Protestant denominations. I don't know if it is standard procedure or not, but both my home congregation and the church I attended for a while in Nashville were very good about providing adequate funding for members of the congregation who went to seminary to train for the ministry or mission field, to the extent of just about paying their way completely. I know some Baptist congregations that might do that.

 

DeaconDean

Keep taking as many classes as you can - audit when it is cheaper. But, study all that you can.

As someone started above, I am not anti-education, I will finish, but I do believe in preparing as much as you can to show yourself approved for this great, grand, ancient, modern, and mostly fun occupation: proclaiming the Good News about the Kingdom of God and of His Christ.

In Him

Wayne

 

Thanks for the kind words. But I believe that some have misinterpreted what I meant. I fully support the pastor to be should be educated to some degree. That is not the point. I got my calling some 4 years ago. And to put it bluntly, because I'm over 40, some colleges such as Gardner-Webb will not touch me because I'm so much older. And I'm really not willing to submit to taking the "new" SAT's. Even the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Extension campus at Hickory Grove Baptist church is out of reach. Do you realize that it is $175/ semister hour per class. Most classes are six hours equaling $1,050/class not including books and fees. And it takes 96 hours to get the BA degree. That's $16,800 plus the cost of books, and then, that still isn't a garrentee that you'll be accepted as a Senior Pastor. I have a son who is preparing to go to college, I have to pay for that. We don't wanna go there in what it is gonna cost. But my age, and the fact that I have school records that are 26 years out of date make it nearly impossible to attend college. Yet without it, I'm locked out of the Pastorate. Why? Shouldn't that be taken in consideration also? By going to seminary extension classes, I have the equavilant of 64 hours of college credit at a 3.9 GPA and a Pastorial diploma. Yet I'm disqualified, why is that? Because I don't have the "minimum requirments." An MDiv, or a Phd. My church have all testified that the calling is on me, yet because I don't have the MDiv or the Phd, I'm disqualified. And that is sad. That is the point I was getting at. Yes if they are young, certainly they should have a formal education. But if their older such as myself, shouldn't the years as a Born-again Christian and other qualifications be considered also?