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SBC Pres. Seeks Input on New Name for Denomination

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jerome, Sep 20, 2011.

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  1. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    What's wrong with Southern Baptist? A least we know who they are, I think!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Two things:

    1) don't want to be confused with the Conservative Bap Assoc

    2) and some might think that Conservative would be based on politics
     
  3. humblethinker

    humblethinker Active Member

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    I think they would say that that word has too much political connotation.
     
  4. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Several of the most recently formed Southern Baptist state conventions have chosen that label.

    Salty, those-formerly-known-as-Conservative-Baptists up North seem to have abandoned that designation. Now it's just "CBAmerica", "WorldVenture", "Missions Door", etc.
     
    #44 Jerome, Sep 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2011
  5. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    How about the Slightly Odd Baptists...

    OOOOPs.. won't work.. bad initials! Mean me!
     
  6. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    You mean they don't follow lifeway literature put out by the SBC. Nor does lifeway use the Holman Bible for it's verses. They don't follow by-laws presented by the National Convention. Other than that being autonomous. They don't need to give anything to the co-op to still be SBC and they don't need to send money to the local association other than that they are autonomous.


    I can see that, I was brought up in an entirely independent baptist church. We supported missionaries and sent funds straight to them or the mission board they designated. Our Sunday School teachers planned their own lessons and chose the literature they wanted. The funds comming in were shown each month and all major funds going out were voted on. We as a church body knew where every dollar went and how the missionary stood doctrinally that it went too.
    The SBC co-op program sends support to SBC missionaries, of whom might not agree doctinally as the local church. Such as the local church may not be Calvanist or Armenian and the missionary supported may just be. Or the missionary may be amil where the church is pre-mil or vise versa. Yet the church supports that missionary through the co-op. The truly independent church supports missionaries that align doctrinally with thier beliefes so that is where I am coming from.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    That's right. That's completely optional. I've been in several SBC churches that dont use the literature.

    That's so they don't pay licensing fees for other translations. But remember, no one is obligated to use Lifeway materials or the Holman Bible.

    I've never even heard of something like this in SBC life. While I can see that because many SBC churches use Lifeway materials, someone might assume it is required, this allegation is pure fantasy.

    Cooperation with others does not invalidate autonomy in your own decisionmaking and affairs.

    By the standard you just condemned the SBC for (cooperation), you have just condemned your own church.

    Just like SBC teachers.

    That can happen in an SBC church too.
     
  8. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I see you still have blinders on to what is happening in the SBc. So let's see if the SBC changes it's name and issues a new statement of faith will the SBC churrches follow their lead?
    Probably 90% but wait they will decide too so that makes them autonomous because they have permission to say they are. They just co-operate.
    I am a member of an SBC church and as such I see their errors in following this model. Most still have the basic (fundamental) truths of faith, however that is a bad word I used in parentheseis.
    By fundamentals of faith I mean they still hold these truths:

    Saved by Grace through faith

    Eternally Secure

    Most not all hold that Baptism is not part of Salvation. Although I have seen a few SBC churches that have added it.

    Most again not all hold that the bible is verbal plenarily given.

    Most believe in Pre-Trib, Pre-Mil view however more and more I am seeing amills infiltrate the SBC.

    The problem is they are under the umbrella of the local, state and national Conferences. They go to the annual meeting to see what direction the national leaders are leading the organization. That is not autonomy, that is following the leader. The SBC has changed from what it was many years back, although some of the old guard is still around. My experience with most is that the pastors give 3 points and poem and tickle ears. Not my pastor he does teach and preach the things of the word. But he is one of the old guard. The SBC needs to change it's monachar many need to remove the Baptist and many have because they no longer resemble baptist.
    Remove the blinders and take a closer look and then get the church back to the truths of scripture and the things baptist have always stood for. Don't think you are autonomous and that makes you independent because most SBC churches are no where near independent and no where near where they think they are. Should we be you bet we should.
     
  9. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Apparently you do not actually go to any meetings. If you had you would actually know what goes on there. The local, state, and national associations are not umbrella's. They are groups of autonomous churches that cooperate to plant churches and be a resource to churches for outreach in their own areas.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Ya'll really need to say local assemblies instead of churches. Ain't ya'll southern?

    :tongue3:

    Enjoyed the thread and let's keep the name.
     
  11. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    How about "Faith Communities of America"
     
  12. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Wow, you are making a huge, unwarranted assumption here. I am not an advocate of the SBC at all, although I grew up in an SBC church and was very involved in the local associations, state conventions, and the annual meetings for about 15 years.

    I no longer consider myself SBC.

    The reason I responded to your allegations is not that I'm trying to protect the SBC, but that we need to speak the truth about it.

    If churches want to identify which missionary-sending organization(s) they cooperate with, I'm sure they will want to use the appropriate name. If a person I know legally changes their name, I would start calling them by thei new name, wouldn't you?

    The "statement of faith" is a guide for Convention business and can be used by the churches, but it is not imposed upon the churches. For instance, many people in my church have issues with the 2000 version of the Baptist Faith & Message confession. While our church is technically an SBC church because we give to the Cooperative Program and support the mission efforts, we do not use the 2000 BF&M as our confession to the local community. (For that matter, I don't know any Sunday School teachers who use Lifeway materials either.)

    The ability to choose to participate in any part of the SBC program or not is the very definition of autonomy.

    If you have any evidence that the SBC leadership is dictating what individual churches must do, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, I suggest you not make false accusations.

    Baptism is very important, but it does not change one's relationship with God other than pleasing him as a good post-conversion testimony of faith.

    The amillenial perspective is probably less common than it used to be in the SBC. Southern Baptists (as a Convention) have never advocated specific interpretations of the Last Days or promoted/rejected dispensationalist positions. There are too many areas of disagreement among careful, devout scholars.

    1. There are no umbrellas. The local association is autonomous, the state conventions are autonomous, and the SBC has no control over any the churches, who are autonomous. As an example, my church is a member of the BGCT (Baptist General Convention of Texas), and we did not go along with the "Conservative Resurgence." We did not affirm the 2000 BF&M. Eventually, a group walked out of our annual meeting in Houston (I was a witness to this) and formed SBT ("The Southern Baptists of Texas") convention that affirms the 2000 BF&M. Currently, the SBC cooperates with TWO different state conventions in Texas. One of the conventions, the SBT, cooperates very closely with the SBC (good for them if that's what they want to do) and one, the BGCT, cooperates in a more discriminating way.

    2. I don't know where you are getting the word, "Conference." I think you have the SBC structure confused with another group.

    They go to hear reports from the leadership regarding the past year, they go to give directions to the leadership, and they go to elect new leadership. The orders come from the churches, not the other way around. It is clear you've never been to a Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting.

    Yes.

    Actually, no. Not unless your perspective is limited to the last decade or so.

    That problem is not limited to churches that cooperate with the SBC.

    You seem to have very limited experience in the SBC and other Baptist churches. You have made enormous generalizations that does hold true at all.

    1. The SBC is not a church. It is an organization supported by autonomous Baptist churches for the purposes of equipping, supporting and sending missionaries that also includes a number of other institutions that serve member churches for purposes such as theological education and retirement services for vocational ministers.

    2. No blinders here. I'm a rather sharp critic of the SBC. However, I am obligated to be honest about it because I am a Christian. I'm sure you are trying to be honest, but frankly, you really don't know what you're talking about. I think someone has misled you.

    Again, if you have any evidence that the SBC leadership is even attempting to control the churches, I would be very interested in hearing about it. I watch for things like that and I don't see it.
     
  13. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    My SBC I was saved in an SBC church at the age of about 12 we left the church. Why Dad was teachung the youth Sunday School and put the SS book aside to teach from the Bible and was told you have to follow the SBC curiculim we are not allowed to teach from the bible in SS and must go with the quarterlies. Dad found an independet Baptist church where he could teach from the Bible.

    Every SBC church I have attended used the quarterly for SS. One in which I was teaching a training union class allowed me to teach without literature but SS was a must for the quarterly.

    All SBC churches turn in an annual report to the local association which in turns sends it up the line.

    The independent church I pastored was having problems with the tax exempt number. The church had paper showing where they had registered with the Secratqary of State in our state but we could find no record of the ID number assigned. I ask a few of the SBC pastors how they went about getting it and they said they were umbrellowed in under the State Convention and therefore the State organization registerd for them.

    I have been a member of 3 SBC churches. I have been the music director at two, preached in 5, and for extended periods in 2 and I taught SS in 2 a and the training union class mentioned. I have attended, due to working out of town 4 for extended periods and these have been my observances. I am currently a member of an SBC church but here on the road I am attending an Independent church on Sunday Mornings and an SBC on Sunday Night. I consider myself a Christian first and Baptist second.
    Can someone find fault and still be a member that is what our freedom in the Lord is all about. You attend where the Spirit leads and pray God will work His will. As a submissive member of the church you follow the direction of the leadership of the church and don't make trouble. You talk with the pastor and let him know what you believe and submit to his authority over the church, God has placed him there and we being submissive to the authority over us as commanded by God follow that authority. In most cases their is no where else that is any better.
     
  14. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    This misrepresents the situation. The church you speak of no doubt chose to use the quarterlies. It was not imposed on them. I know this because the SBC cannot impose anything on a church.

    So what is the point here?

    ok?

    Sounds like someone did not know what they were doing. But none of this has anything to do with being independent.


    You seem to have your own personal standard for what is independent. But no one can tell a church how to conduct its affairs. That is independence.
     
  15. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying my Dad was a liar that it didn't happen the way he told it.
     
  16. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Really let's see you turn in annual report to a group, therefore you answer to them about what you have done for the year. The SBC churches fall under the umbrella of the state association as far as registering with the Secratary of State of the state in which the church is physically located. They depend on the quarterly created by the SBC with the SBC choosing what the lesson plan is.
    They give to a co-operative program for missionary support and therefore lose control of who actually recieves the funds and how those that recive those funds believe.
    Doesn't sound like they are totally in control of everything but are dependent upon the other groups for those things. If they choose to come they can and if they did then they would no longer be dependent upon them.
     
  17. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    Boom!!! Exactly right. The SBC has become a laughingstock among evangelicals. It will take more than a name change...maybe a brain transplant.
     
  18. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    I didn't trash them. Not at all. They just pose serious credibility issues.
     
  19. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    When you overstate your position because of bitterness or hate you lose credibility and run the risk of looking immature.
     
  20. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    You did trash them and the only people they pose credibility issues is to the left. No one to be taken seriously.
     
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