SBC President Frank Page on Calvinism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ben W, Jun 14, 2006.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    I found this book written by incomming SBC President Frank Page and this excerpt online. I have to confess to being surprised as from what I have read in here I thought that the SBC encouraged a Calvinist position?

    - If one does follow the logic of Calvinism, then a missionary or evangelistic spirit is unnecessary. If irresistible grace is the truth, then there is no need to share Christ with anyone, since those persons whom God has elected are irristibly going to be drawn into his kingdom anyway. If one studies the pages of history, one will see that Calvinistic theology (Five Point) has encouraged a slackening of the aggressive evangelistic and missionary heartbeat of the church (74-75).

    Trouble with the Tulip: A Closer Examination of the Five Points of Calvinism
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    The SBC neither encourages nor discourages a Calvinist position. There are Southern Baptists who are passionate Calvinists (and usually part of the Founders movement) and many others who are not.

    The SBC has had from the beginning two streams of thought on the subject, since the predecessor to the SBC was made of persons from General Baptist churches (general atonement) and Particular Baptist churches (limited or particular atonement).

    Early SBC educators tended to be Calvinist, so quite a few of the early writings (and the Abstract of Principles for the first seminary, Southern Seminary) reflect that perspective.
     
  3. mcdirector

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    Calvinism is another one of those issues that I didn't know was so raging until I started coming here.
     
  4. John Ellwood Taylor

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  5. StefanM

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    For what it's worth, I believe his Ph.D. is in ethics, not theology.
     
  6. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
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    I don't remember where I saw it, but Page addressed this issue recently.
     
  7. Grasshopper

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    Yes, I believe it was on one of the blogs. The book was written some time ago and has addressed the issue again recently to the satisfaction of some on the reformed side.
     
  8. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
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    Hmmm!

    Wow, thats a little like saying, 'I didnt know people actually read and believed the bible anymore until I came here!'
    As Spurgeon so aptly said, "Calvinism is another name for sound biblical doctrine!'
    Perhaps if more truly read and studied scripture they would see what truths are present there.
    I rather dread whats ahead with an anti-calvinist as SBC president, that he might fan the already present flames against such sound bible doctrines! I so hope not!
     
  9. mcdirector

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    Really now. That's extreme. I didn't know the KJV debate was so hot until I came here either.

    Can you tell what I believe about Calvinism from the statement I made? I doubt it. Can you tell what I know about Calvinism from my statement? Not much -- except that I didn't know people were arguing about it and making harsh comments.

    Now lets see, I've written for Lifeway, I've been on associational assist teams, I've helped churches set up Sunday and weekday preschool and children's programs, I've led conferences, I've taught for Christian schools, I work with ACSI accrediting schools, I've been on church staff. That's put me in quite a few churches and in none of them do I remember KJVO or Calvinism debates coming up.
     
  10. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    MC,

    Your post speaks to the reality of most in the church, pastors and non-pastors alike. These issues seem to be more important on boards like this than in the everyday life of Christians out here serving the Lord.

    2B,
    I like Spurgeon, but that he made that statement does not make it anymore so. Long before Calvin ever came along the Bible spoke for itself. It did not nor does it need to be boxed in by a manmade theological system that limits the vast truth of God's Word. The problem with these systems, regardless of what their name is, is when they have to deal with a Scripture that does not fit within the system they have to change it or warp it to make sure the proponents can make statements about their system such as the one from Spurgeon.

    Being a biblical Christian has no other name whether it be calvinist or arminian. Being biblical is considering the whole counsel of God and letting the Scripture say what it says, without having to fit in a preconceived manmade system.

    just my .02

    Bro Tony
     
  11. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
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    Please accept my apology. I certainly didnt mean to either offend or demean!
    Its just that to me there is much negative said of calvinism and so little reading the wonderful sound writings of the puritans that knew of the truths there! Actually John Calvin had nothing to do at all with starting calvinism. The doctrines were written from his very sound words based on scripture. The doctrines were actually written as a response to arminianism. Calvin would likely be horrified to think his name was involved in such. The point remains that if/when you would read on www.monergism.com you find the most sound of writings, deep, biblical from years ago up to now based on these great scriptural truths! When anyone makes a derogatory remark of any kind I feel like I'm defending scripture itself as the doctrines of grace so reflect the truths of our Lord so clearly! I've only known of calvinism for the past 5 yrs but have read all I can find since that time and just cant get over how clearly it reflects and encompasses all of scripture!
    Again, forgive if I offended! God bless you!!
     
  12. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    2bHizown,

    I wasn't offended, I just thought your statement was extreme comparing finding out that people duke it out over Calvinism to reading the Bible.

    I would venture to say that we are unique group or we wouldn't be posting here. We are knowledgeable in many ways that the general church-going public may or may not be. Or at the very least we come here for a variety of reasons -- to learn, to share, to commune.

    In reality, what I meant (more than anything else) by my off the cuff statement is that I wasn't aware of the furvor or rankor of the debate. Some of the C/A as well as the KJVO/MV can get rather heated and less than polite at times. I wonder if some of these wonderful men and women were sitting down and speaking face-to-face if they would come across as they do here?

    If everyone were as kind as you, this wouldn't be an issue.

    And you are right about the Puritans. They wrote some good stuff. I've just recently discovered som of them myself and have been buying books for the media center so others can read them too. Oh how I hope they get checked out!

    Bitsy
     
  13. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
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    Reading the best available!

    In my experience people rarely choose the best, or 'heavy' and challenging things to read, most unfortunately! Too many books available to read today I consider 'fluff', or rather 'christianity lite'. All it does is soothe, smooth, and show how to rearrange your nest of feelings. In reading the really challinging theology it forces one to consider scriptures in a more accurate and stimulating manner, even challenging the very teachings you've accumulated through a whole lifetime! It did this for me, as I read I was challenged to take a hard look at the variety of teachings that were either borderline 'truth' or even 'no- truth'
    This reading list has both 'initial' and 'advanced' books and offer some of the best writings available anywhere! Most are available online, or can be purchased cheap on amazon used. If we continue along in our old and known mode how can we be challenged to see deeper into God's truths?
    Oh oh, I lost my link! Will retrieve it and post it.
    God bless!
     
  14. 2BHizown

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  15. Jarthur001

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    I agree 100% I have never read mans words like that of the Puritans. Its like so much thought went into each word. This reminds me of something a friend told me years ago.

    "Don't waste your time on a good book. There are to many to read. Only read Great Books."

    I have taken this to heart many times and stopped reading a book right in the middle of it, for it was weak. I'm sure the Puritains wrote some bad ones, but for the most part when you read their works and then pick-up one from today, there is something missing in todays books. Maybe its just the art of writing we are missing today. I'm not sure what it is. Whatever the case....

    The Puritains wrote great books!!
     
  16. whatever

    whatever
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    You must not be Calvinist then.







    JUST KIDDING!!!!!
     

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