SBC President Moves to Quell Firestorm

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Tom Butler, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Actually, SBC President Frank Page started this process a couple of days ago, I just missed it. And I haven't ready anything here about his statement to Baptist Press:
    Actually, a "consensus accord already exists. It's a document both Calvinists and Arminians have embraced for a long time. Frank Page nailed it. It's called The Baptist Faith and Message 2000.







     
    #1 Tom Butler, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2012
  2. OldRegular

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    Articles IV and V of the 2000 Baptist Faith and message are presented below.

    http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#v

    IV. Salvation

    Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.

    A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

    Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.

    B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.

    C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled to progress toward moral and spiritual maturity through the presence and power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Growth in grace should continue throughout the regenerate person's life.

    D. Glorification is the culmination of salvation and is the final blessed and abiding state of the redeemed.




    V. God's Purpose of Grace

    Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.


    Please note in paragraph IV-A

    Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    According to the above Regeneration precedes faith! It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit ... to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  3. mandym

    mandym
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    Non-cals who deny irresistible grace and an order of salvation have no problem with the BF&M
     
  4. jonathan.borland

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    Don't kid yourself. You very conveniently omitted "through conviction of sin" by ellipsis, which is the nearest antecedent to the "which" that follows. Therefore, according to the plain reading of the document, regeneration doesn't occur until the sinner responds to the conviction of sin!
     
  5. OldRegular

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    You are clutching at straws. The point is: Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit

    Now the regenerate person, this New Birthed person, understanding that he has sinned against God, can respond to the Gospel in Repentance and faith, inseparable experiences of grace. And Grace is unmerited favor. Where does unmerited favor come from? God.
     
  6. preachinjesus

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    Just FYI, the current President of the SBC, Bryant Wright, hasn't made a definite statement on these matters. However, Frank Page, the President of the Executive Committee (a useless agency of the SBC) has made this statement.
     
  7. jonathan.borland

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    You omit the phrase "through the conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds" again! There is no regeneration until faith and repentance according to the document.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    You are entitled to read the statement however it suits your fancy. And you are also entitled to be wrong, which you are.

    Pink speaks of the effects of Regeneration as follows:

    http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Regeneration/regeneration_03.htm

    The sinner is now enlightened in the knowledge of his own terrible condition. He may, before this, have received much scriptural instruction, subscribed to a sound creed, and believed intellectually in "the total depravity of man"; but now the solemn declarations of God's Word concerning the state of the fallen creature are brought home in piercing power to his own soul. No longer does he compare himself with his fellows, but measures himself by the rule of God. He now discovers that he is unclean, that his heart is "desperately wicked," and that he is altogether unfit for the presence of the thrice holy God. He is powerfully convicted of his own awful sins, feels that they are more in number than the hairs of his head, and that they are high provocations against Heaven, which call for Divine judgment on him. He now realizes that there is "no soundness" (Isa. 1:6) in him, and that all his best performances are only as "filthy rags" (Isa. 64:6), and that he is deserving of nought but the everlasting burnings.

    By the spiritual light which God communicates in regeneration the soul now perceives the infinite demerits of sin, that its "wages" can be nothing less than eternal death, or the loss of Divine favor and a dreadful suffering under the wrath of God. The equity of God's law and the fact that sin righteously calls for such punishment is humbly acknowledged. Thus his mouth is "stopped" and he confesses himself to be guilty before God, and justly liable to His awful vengeance, both for the plague of his own heart and his numerous transgressions. He now realizes that his whole life has been lived in utter independence of God, having had no respect for His glory, no concern whether he pleased or displeased Him. He now perceives the exceeding sinfulness of sin, its awful malignity, as being in its nature contrary to the law of God. How to escape the due reward of his iniquity, he knows not. "What must I do to be saved?" is his agonizing cry. He is convinced of the absolute impossibility of contributing anything to his deliverance. He no longer has any confidence in the flesh; he has been brought to the end of himself.

    By means of this illumination the renewed soul, under the guidance of the Spirit through the Word, now perceives how well-suited is Christ to such a poor, worthless wretch as he feels himself to be. The prospect of obtaining deliverance from the wrath to come through the victorious life and death of the Lord Jesus, keeps his soul from being overwhelmed with grief and from sinking into complete despondency because of the sight of his sins. As the Spirit presents to him the infinite merits of Christ's obedience and righteousness, His tender compassion for sinners, His power to save, desires for an interest in Christ now possesses his heart, and he is resolved to look for salvation in no other. Under the benign influences of the Holy Spirit, the soul is drawn by some such words as, "Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavily laden, and if will give you rest," or "him that cometh unto Me I will in no wise cast out," and he is led to apply to Him for pardon, cleansing, peace, righteousness, strength.

    Other acts besides turning unto Christ flow from this new principle received at regeneration, such as repentance, which is a godly sorrow for sin, an abhorring of it as sin, and an earnest desire to forsake and be completely delivered from its pollution. In the light of God, the renewed soul now perceives the utter vanity of the world, and the worthlessness of these paltry toys and perishing trifles which the godless strive so hard to acquire. He has been awakened from the dream-sleep of death, and things are now seen in their true nature. Time is precious and not to be frittered away. God in His awesome Majesty is an object to be feared. His law is accepted as holy, just and good. All of these perceptions and actions are included in that holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. In some these actions are more vigorous than in others, and consequently, are more perceptible to a man's self. But the fruits of them are visible to others in external acts.​


    I believe what Pink states is consistent with what I stated:Now the regenerate person, this New Birthed person, understanding that he has sinned against God, can respond to the Gospel in Repentance and faith, inseparable experiences of grace.
     
  9. jonathan.borland

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    In spite of the astounding arrogance of some who fail to understand relatively simple prose, why does the BFM2000 clearly state that responding to conviction of sin is the means by which the Holy Spirit wreaks regeneration? If it is the means by which regeneration is wrought, regeneration can't precede it now, can it?
     
  10. mandym

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    And of course scripture nowhere places any such order. None.
     
  11. Tom Butler

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    Thanks for the correction. I'll be fine as soon as the fever breaks.
     
    #11 Tom Butler, Jun 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2012
  12. Yeshua1

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    Just curious, as to when the lord jesus , or Paul stated that unless one has the EXACT sotierology model, that one fully knows just why/how/what is happening, they cannot be saved?

    My bible states that we are ALl sinners, Jesus death provided basis of being justified, and grace is applied to us thru faith in Christ...

    Don't Cals/Arms BOTH affirm that?
     
  13. OldRegular

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    You might try reading John 3:3.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    And then:

    John 3:14-16
    14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
     
  14. drfuss

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    The SBC BF&M is a carefully worded document in which Calvinists and Non-Calvinists can read into it what they want as demonstrated in the above posts. Apparently, it was purposely written that way so that both of the two very devergent beliefs can claim it.

    The differences between the Non-Cals and the Classic Arminians are much less that the differences between the Cals. and the Non-Cals. The Cal/Non-cal differences include the nature of God's dealing with man and the respones of man to God. Yet, the SBC strains at the differences in the security of the believer, i.e. both a True Christian will not stop trusting in Christ, or a True Christian can stop trusting in Christ and still be saved (Stanley); versus a true Christian can stop trusting in Christ and thereby forfeit their salvation (Classic Arminians). In many cases, the differences are primarily only a matter of definitions and words.

    IMO, the SBC strains a nat and swallows a camel.
     
    #14 drfuss, Jun 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2012
  15. OldRegular

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    You might try reading:

    John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
     
  16. preachinjesus

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    (emphasis mine)

    Wow man that's pretty polarizing.

    As an observation, there have been more polarizing and hyper-critical statements from the Calvinists around here lately than from the other groups. Whether it is calling the rest of apostates or saying we're dead wrong about these issues...I'm seeing more caustic language from the Calvinists than others.

    Maybe its time for some restraint.
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    :thumbs::thumbs: This is a downgrade and compromise . Some like it.many do not.
     
  18. Ed B

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    The addition shown above in red might make your statement more accurate, at least in my eyes.

    And to be fair you wouldn't have to search very long to find a couple of non-Cals who are consistently caustic and demeaning to those who disagree with them.
     
  19. preachinjesus

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    This is a good catch, I had intended to include "a few of" but my thumbs skipped what my brain intended...the trials and travails of posting using an iPad...;)

    Good catch, it helps and clarifies my intention! :thumbs:
     
  20. Luke2427

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    Yes it does. Repeatedly.
     

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