"SBC Seminary President" Ergun Caner, Jerry Rankin, and the SBC

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    To all who follow all things Baptist:

    You have no doubtless heard of the fracas that was generated by Ergun Caner when he called Jerry Rankin, SBC International Mission Board President, a liar over the "camel method" of missions.

    One particular citation was in the Sharper Iron web page/blog.

    A related web article can be seen here:

    Southern Baptist Seminary President Labels IMB Mission Strategy ‘Heresy’

    I am not particularly interested in the charge Dr. Caner made against Dr. Rankin.

    What captivated my interest(s) was that Dr. Ergun Caner was called a "Southern Baptist Seminary President" in the article. Is Ergun Caner an "SBC Seminary President?"

    I know all of the issues about Liberty joining the SBC before Dr. Falwell died and such. But for the uninitiated, this makes me very nervous to refer to Dr. Caner as an "SBC Seminary President" on many levels.

    I would like to hear from some/many of you. I would especially like to hear from SBC ministers and/or SBC ministerial students who are in the process of getting (or have gotten) a degree from Liberty.

    This should prove quite interesting indeed.

    "That is all!" :thumbs:

    PS: Here is a related article I just added: http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/post/Caner-calls-IMB-Camel-strategy-heresy.aspx
     
    #1 Rhetorician, Feb 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2010
  2. Revmitchell

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    And this is an issue why?
     
  3. Rhetorician

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    Rev. Mitchell Reply

    Hello my dear brother Rev. Mitchell:

    I hope you are well.

    To me it has to do with what is an "SBC Seminary" and what is not an "SBC Seminary." Maybe I am just too provincial.

    But, obviously, it meant something to me--or else I would not have posted it. I think history, tradition, missions, and theology matter.

    But that is just me!!!

    "That is all!" :applause:
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    ok but what is your issue with Liberty? This is necessary info to engage in the rest of what you said.
     
  5. Jerome

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    What are you talking about? "Southern Baptist Seminary President" is nowhere in the links you gave.
     
  6. Havensdad

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    First, although I usually disagree with Caner, I agree wholeheartedly on this point.

    Second, Liberty endorses the 2000 faith and message, they receive money from the Southern Baptist of Virginia convention, and are listed on the SBC website as a SBC college. I see no problem with calling them an SBC seminary. Autonomy is part and partial to the SBC, so I do not believe the fact that they receive no cooperative money, should mean they are not SBC.
     
  7. Crucified in Christ

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    This was pretty much exactly how I was planning on answering this.
     
  8. Tom Butler

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    Rhetorician may answer for himself, but I do not detect any animosity toward Liberty Seminary in his posts.

    I think the goal is clarity. Historically, when I hear a reference to a Southern Baptist Seminary, the my assumption has been that we're talking about one of the seminaries operated by the Southern Baptist Convention.

    To label Liberty a SBC seminary risks some confusion.

    I serve as a trustee to Mid-Continent University in Mayfield, Kentucky. Every trustee is an active member of a Southern Baptist Church. Every faculty member is either a Southern Baptist or teaches in line with the Baptist Faith and Message.

    Mid-Continent has a friendly relationship with the Kentucky Baptist Convention, but not organizationally, as do Campbellsville University and the University of the Cumberlands, both KBC institutions.



    MCU is KBC and SBC friendly, and friendly may be too mild a word. But we are not an SBC school, nor are we a KBC school. To label us as such would be imprecise and confusing.

    In the same way, labeling Liberty an SBC seminary lacks clarity and promotes confusion.
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    So what is the confusion and what needs clarification?
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    Yeah I think the "media" (and I use that term as loosely as possible) and pajamahadeen (i.e. bloggers) are making more of this than it needs to be.

    I've stated my position on all of this mess in another thread. So I digress...

    Yes, this makes plenty of us nervous. Liberty University is Southern Baptist affiliated...Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary is not affiliated with the SBC.

    I mean are we supposed to be surprised when marginal members of the religious media structure incorrectly identify a seminary or academic institution. During my time at LU I saw the developments of the affiliation with the SBC. Since my time away I've seen the actual relationship mature.

    Liberty is not an SBC school like SWBTS, SBTS, or even Union. They are affliated with one state convention in Virginia and have the ability to split fro the convention if things head away from the status quo. That is fine, I don't care about that part. As I understand things, the seminary is separate from these aspects. It is an independent school.

    Again, the whole thing with Caner is being overblown. Everybody needs to count to ten and chill out. :thumbsup:
     
  11. Rhetorician

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    Tom Butler Response

    Hello Tom,

    I hope all is well with you and yours and especially at Mid Continent.

    For all readers and for the record: My good friend and colleague Tom Butler could not have said it any better than I tried to do.

    I am not casting any aspersions against Liberty TS in general or Dr. Ergun Caner in particular. I was only wanting to clarify what "is" and what "is not" a Southern Baptist Seminary, secular media withstanding.

    If any one of you have inferred that I implied more than what I just said, then I stand corrected and repent. But then again, I am not responsible for what you think I said or you think I meant. That is entirely up to you. If I have caused any consternation to any ones sensibilities, I humbly apologize and repent. :tear:

    "That is all!"
     
  12. Rhetorician

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  13. Havensdad

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    The Seminary is not independent. It receives money from the Virginia Convention, including specific scholarships just for the seminary. LBTS is indeed SBC affiliated.
     
  14. Martin

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    ==I'm not sure what the "camel method" of missions is, but I do know that Ergun Caner should not throw stones when he is living in a glass house. Clear evidence has come to light that Caner himself has not always been totally honest about his debate record (LINK).


    ==In a way yes, in a way no. LBTS is southern baptist in its doctrines (etc). But it is not one of the SBC seminaries.
     
  15. TomVols

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    Ergun is not an SBC seminary president. LBTS receives no SBC CP money and its trustees are not elected by the messengers of the SBC. It is dishonest to say it is an SBC seminary.

    Now, to call it a Southern Baptist seminary is another point altogether, though I still think it's tenuous at best. MABTS, LBTS, and others can claim being SB, but they're not SBC.
     
  16. Rhetorician

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    Tom Vols Response

    Tom,

    Thanks for the light more than heat on the issue. You have hit the nail on the head for sure.

    And let me say for the record, as a Mid America Baptist Theological Seminary alum of 1985, it is not an SBC seminary in that it gets no Co-operative program monies. But, all of the profs there are members of SBC churches, nothing is said against the SBC on any level, SBC entity heads speak there regularly, and SBC missions--polity-and history are taught there. And many, many of their alumni go to the missions fields--both foreign and home--regularly.

    For the record!!

    "That is all!"
     
    #16 Rhetorician, Mar 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2010
  17. Revmitchell

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    VIRGINIA

    * Bluefield College
    * - affiliated with the Baptist General Association of Virginia
    * Liberty University
    * - in partnership with the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia

    * Virginia Intermont College
    * - affiliated with the Baptist General Association of Virginia



    http://www.sbc.net/colleges.asp
     
  18. Havensdad

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    This would be a valid point, except as the post above notes, Liberty is supported and affiliated with the Virginia convention.

    What are we, Presbyterians? If you are affiliated with the SBC, you're SBC: and Liberty is affiliated with the local SBC. It is the same as many churches, who are affiliated with the local conventions: they are automatically part of the state and national conventions.

    Saying that Liberty is a SBC seminary seems perfectly appropriate; they are just not one of the "main" big six seminaries.

    http://www.sbcv.org/partners
     
  19. Tom Butler

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    But not always. I know of one former Independent Baptist church in my area that affiliated with the SBC, but not with the local Baptist association or Kentucky Baptist Convention.

    Of course, in Liberty's case, affiliating with a local association in Virginia may indeed make it part of the state convention and SBC. But in my example, affiliating with the SBC does not make it automatically part the association and state convention.
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    Not arguing with you but where in all of the SBC is there such a distinction in writing?
     

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