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SBTS changes MDiv Counseling Curriculum

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by NateT, Feb 11, 2005.

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  1. NateT

    NateT Member

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    http://www.towersonline.net/story.php?grp=news&id=252

    I sat in on a meeting when this was announced to the counseling students. Let me say, I think this is a great change. Southern is trying to set the standard very high and create a group of counselors who are trained to apply the Bible to people's real life needs and problems. Rather than taking the ideas of anit-Christians (Freud, Rogers, Jung) and try to put a Christian spin on them.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out in about 4-5 years as the students of this program graduate and move into FT ministry.
     
    #1 NateT, Feb 11, 2005
  2. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    You're right---this is good news. I was on campus a couple of weeks ago and was informed of the change. I think Russ Moore really pushed this. BTW, Russ is a great guy and will be making a very positive impact upon the SBTS.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
    #2 Broadus, Feb 11, 2005
  3. NateT

    NateT Member

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    I agree.

    When Dr. Moore was talking about the need to be licensed vs the need to counsel people with the Bible. I was thinking that I lined up pretty close to him on this one.
     
    #3 NateT, Feb 11, 2005
  4. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Hey folk,

    Not to rain on anyone's parade for I am a Southern alum also; but how does all of this work about getting a couneling credential from the different states? If they are not going to use Freud, Rogers, Jung, etc. theories then how will we get accreditation? All of you do remember the trouble Jn Mac had over the boy who commited suicide? Just asking, get back and let me know what you think?

    This seems to captivate the whole question (or issue) of how to merge or combine the social sciences with theology and Bible? does it not?

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #4 Rhetorician, Feb 12, 2005
  5. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    I'm certain they will learn the various theories, but they're not ultimately trying to please the secularists. BTW, MacArthur and Grace were completely exonerated in the suicide situation.

    Bill
     
    #5 Broadus, Feb 12, 2005
  6. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound New Member

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    The general idea is that preparing students for licensure is not why the seminary exists...and Southern should not let secular licensure boards dictate the faculty hired or the curriculum taught.

    This is a GREAT move by Southern.
     
    #6 JGrayhound, Feb 15, 2005
  7. NateT

    NateT Member

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    It is the very reason that SBTS does not exist to produce lincensed counselors that is driving this. Dr. Moore's attitude was essentially that we have never existed to get licensure. You can achieve that by taking classes at other institutions (like the University of Louisville)

    Additionally, it was suggested that they might seek to help people become certified by NACN.

    Additionally, in the presentation given to the students, counseling licensure today was linked to preaching licensure a couple hundred years ago in New England.
     
    #7 NateT, Feb 15, 2005
  8. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    But - if you want a great degree in Marriage and Family counseling that leads to state certification check out Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Wonderful professors, great degree - but be prepared to work your tail off, this is a very demanding course of study.
     
    #8 Jimmy C, Feb 16, 2005
  9. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    As a trained therapist myself (although now a student minister), I cannot stress how important it is to attend a school that is CACREP certified, especially if you plan on ever moving. That's one of the problems with seminary counseling education. Now, if you plan on working at a church or in a church-based counseling center for the rest of your life, it's fine, but it's not really adequate even for community based Christian counseling centers.
     
    #9 ScottEmerson, Feb 17, 2005
  10. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    A question for ScottEmerson;

    Bro. Scott,

    How is it (or can it be) that we can have a completely Bible-based "Church Counseling" degree? I am an old "fundy" and I can see where, why, and how some school programs like Hyles-Anderson College or even BobJonesU might do this type of thing.

    However, in an academically minded research institution which Southern is; how is it that the theories of the social sciences (like counseling) can be completely ignored? IMO, I can see the need to inculcate the social science's theories with those of Scripture. But, it seems just a bit overly fundamental to just ignore the one at the expense of the other altogether.

    I know I will get some "cards and letters" on this one. But, I am really wanting to know? I have a colleague who is also an alum of an evangelical seminary. He has an EdD in counseling and is a marriage and family therapist in private practice. He is just having fits at the thought of doing this (Bible only counseling degree) without using some theories of modern counseling.

    Please speak to this. I will be glad to talk to you "off line" by phone if you wish. It would probably promote more dialogue if we kept it on the BB though. This is really confusing for one whose disciplines are Christian Thought and Rhetoric. One who, if I may add, used the social sciences in the pursuit of his academic credentials.

    Please advise!

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #10 Rhetorician, Feb 17, 2005
  11. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound New Member

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    Who said Southern is ignoring counseling theories?
     
    #11 JGrayhound, Feb 17, 2005
  12. Rhetorician

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    JGrayhound,

    It may have been an assumption on my part. But it seems according to the article above and the discussion on the BB that the curricumlum was to be heavy on the "Bible" and light on the "counseling theories." That is why I ask for the clarification. The questions was FYI (for me)?

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #12 Rhetorician, Feb 17, 2005
  13. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    It doesn't sound to me that Southern is completely going to ignore the secular schools. However, it seems that they will bring them up just to bash them. I know from personal experience, working in the secular world that Christian psychotherapy theories just don't work when dealing with non-Christians. It's like two different languages.

    It's been good for me to learn both, so I can be conversant in both. I lean towards the Gestalt orientation, and have found a great use of it even when doing Christian counseling, especially with adolescents. I would probably agree with your EdD friend - just because you are learning theories that were developed by non-Christians shouldn't make it completely anathema. I know that there are many things that we as Baptists use (from microphones to the English language) that were created by non-Christians, and we don't have a problem with them.

    My hope is that seminaries are teaching their students the Word enough that they will have the discernment to handle these theories and use them in ways that glorify God. We live in a world where most of the theories held by therapists are eclectic - how great would it be if all Christian therapists would be able to truly help people using both secular and Christian models of therapy?

    Does that help, r?
     
    #13 ScottEmerson, Feb 17, 2005
  14. NateT

    NateT Member

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    RD:

    I think Southern's change can be summed up by something Dr. Powlinson said, (paraphrase) "Worship is at the heart of counseling." We are either worshipping ourselves, our peers, a lifestyle, something.

    How can Sigmund Freud help me to understand the correct being to worship? He was not just not a Christian, but was actually anti-Christian.

    I'm not sure what you mean by counseling theories, but if you mean the idea of self, or applying maslov's hierarchy, then we need to evaluate those in light of what scripture says, and where they differ, go with scripture.

    I think the point of the revamped program (and I could be wrong) is to not go in to a counseling session and say "Pavlov would say that this behavior is solely a response to the outside stimuli. So avoid the stimuli." Instead, it would say something like "Your response to this stimuli is a symptom. Let's look at the cause."

    For example, bulemia is often "diagnosed" in that once you have been diagnosed with it, it is supposed to help. Dr. Powlinson talked about this very case and said that in one situation where he dealt with a girl showing symptoms of bulemia, there were 3 or 4 unbiblical views lying behind the bulemia. She stopped "being bulemmic" because she saw that she was not worshipping God in that part of her life.
     
    #14 NateT, Feb 17, 2005
  15. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    To whom it may concern:

    I have re-read the above article. It seems that I have missed the emphasis. It does use the word "integrate" when it refers to what the curriculum will be. But, the article does seem to have the "tone" that the Bible will be primary text and counseling theories will have secondary emphasis. I would still like to hear some Biblical Counselors AND Therapists who are classical trained speak to the issues I raise above.

    Thank you very much.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #15 Rhetorician, Feb 17, 2005
  16. NateT

    NateT Member

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    RD:

    Check out www.nanc.org There was a lot of overlay between Dr. Moore said and these articles. Not saying, it is exactly what they're doing, but definitely close.
     
    #16 NateT, Feb 17, 2005
  17. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound New Member

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    Yes....as it should be.
     
    #17 JGrayhound, Feb 17, 2005
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