scandal!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nodak, May 24, 2011.

  1. nodak

    nodak
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    That's what grace still is--pure scandal.

    If you witness much, you find lots of folks claiming to believe salvation is by grace through faith.

    And then--some front load it with the idea you have to clean up your act to come to Christ. (Or at least really really plan to do so. Or at least be really really willing.)

    Some middle load it--you get saved by faith through grace but if you do the wrong works, out you go, lost your salvation.

    Others back load it--you get saved by faith through grace but if you aren't doing whatever their version of fruitpicking is, you find out you never REALLY got saved.

    And then you run into the occasional poor "beggar" spiritually, who knows full well his own sinfulness and need of a Savior, hungrily willing to accept nothing he can do can get him saved, keep him saved, or really show he is saved (think of the Pharisees.)

    That poor beggar reminds you just what a wonderful glorious scandal grace really is.
     
  2. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan
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    The problem I run into most often in that regard is with people who will point to their fruits as evidence of their salvation, which is a perfectly valid, Biblical means of judging salvation, but the problem is that they tend to be confused about their ability to do good works apart from Christ and the role those works have in their salvation.

    It seems to be a matter of "I was a bad person and then I stopped doing so and so and prayed the sinners' prayer".

    I think this is why we need to be very precise in our language. It seems that what started out as a way to make the Gospel simple by putting it in the common vernacular (yes, I know "common vernacular" is redundant) has taken on a life of its own now and "accept Christ" no longer means to recieve Christ, in the same manner of John 1:12, but instead now means to compare Christ to other religions and philosophies, as if comparing brands of detergent at the grocery store and then, should you find Christ to be the better bargain, deciding to give him an opportunity to give you your best life now.

    I think the idea that we are dead, apart from Christ, unable to do anything to merit salvation or God's favor, and that both repentence and faith are works of God done in us, not works we do, have been mostly lost, even to Christians.

    And it's been my experience that if people get very upset when you point these things out because they desperately want to take some credit for their salvation.

    I usually ask people in these situations if they've ever heard of a corpse dialing 911 for an ambulance. They get very defensive when they realize that they don't get any credit in their salvation but what they don't realize is that the fact that they did nothing only makes it that much sweeter and Christ that much more amazing.
     
  3. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills
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    Agree with your statement, not a laughing matter, but made me think of Joel Osteen.

    http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/tag/joel-osteen
     
  4. nodak

    nodak
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    Good thoughts!

    I don't trust my works as evidence of salvation, but rather trust the Word of God and His promises.

    That said, I do believe in regeneration. When God changes a heart, there will naturally be works following.

    But I also believe God's child can disobey, with God's spanking following.

    It is just so hard for people to accept that works don't get them saved, keep them saved, or prove they are saved. (Evil people, unsaved people, can do good things.)
     

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