Scary old testament verses

HP: There is something I would feel that is more frightful than anything you quoted from the OT, and that is to interject a bunch of questions that could possibly raise doubt about a Holy, Just and Loving God in the minds of the listener. Ther are plenty of God haters and disobedient individuals out there that do that well enough.

As for me, I will allow whatever questions I have concerning God’s actions in the OT to remain latent within my mind, and place any doubt as to those actions or commands upon the notion that I am not God and cannot see the whole picture, and now see those things along with many others only through a glass darkly.

One thing I know is that God is Love and that all His actions are Holy and Just. I am not His judge and neither is any man. I will not allow any question in my mind in any way deter my thoughts from those immutable truths. As for myself as a believer, I will never raise a question in the minds of others, that could in any way introduce thoughts that could raise doubt in the hearts and minds of others as to the Loving nature of our God.

Some questions are best left to silence in this world. We will have an eternity to ask any questions we so desire out of God in the world to come ‘face to face,’ if we are found in Him in the last day. Until then I will trust in Him and His Loving Character, for I believe the Word of God. “God is Love” and “He changeth not.”

 

Then find a Baptist Pastor . . . and become a student of God's Word . . .



Otherwise, it is not so simple.

 

the much despised account of God commanding the Israelites to kill various nations of people.

We today insist that a person's religion is just his or her own personal choice, and as long as it is not hurting anybody, what difference does it make? But these people's religion did hurt people! For one thing, all throughout the Old Testament, we see God warning Israel about pagan practices, including "making the children pass through the fire" to the god Molech, which was one of the deities of the Canaanites. The mothers were apparently equally as guilty as the men, so they received the judgement as well.
The sin spread, and the Israelites were susceptible to adopting the hideous practices. (see Numbers 33:55,6) So these people were under God's judgement for both worshipping a false god, AND even killing their children for it (Deuteronomy 18:12), plus their practices polluted the world. Both their neighbors, and even the land! Just think about Ground Zero. Most do not want to build anything on it, because of all the human remains scattered around, even in the dust, from incineration. We call the land "sacred", because it was our loved ones; and our enemies did it. But from the perspective of the terrorists, they have "defiled" it. Now, imagine a whole countryside similarly poisoned with charred or vaporized human remains from demonic ritual. The land is both physically and spiritually defiled! So God deemed it necessary to remove the people. The land was special, you may remember, because it was the fertile crescent ("land of milk and honey"). God promised it to the people He was dealing with at the time. Not those who were rebelling against Him and defiling it with such abominable practices. God did not place man here on this earth to pollute it with such practices (done to other gods, which they themselves have made).
But why the children? What did they do; they are innocent, aren't they? There is strong biblical evidence, especially from Jesus, that even though children are affected by sin, God does not hold them responsible like adults. Some conservative Christians, especially of a more Calvinistic bent, will say "no, they were 'born in sin' and therefore 'guilty'". This is a whole other issue that cannot be discussed here, but is addressed on the Predestination page.
The first time we see this, it is with the Midianites, who had been at constant war with the Israelites who "vex[ed them] with their wiles", and were "beguiling" them, into once again, idolatry. (Numbers 25:18) So in chapter 31, God tells Moses to "avenge" the children of Israel. All of the males (adults, apparently) were slain (v.7). The women and "little ones" were taken captive (v.9). Then, Moses, angry that the women (who were all used to lure Israel into sinning against God) instructs the armies to kill the males among the little ones, as well as all women who were married, while the unmarried would be kept as wives for the Israelites. Obviously, the point of killing the male children and their mothers were so that these people would not grow up within Israel and be taught by their mothers or any other survivors to retaliate, as well as, of course, spread idolatry. So for one thing, that was actually Moses' particular decision, not necessarily God's. God had initially commanded "driving out" those nations. But we see, Israel did not always drive them out thoroughly, and they were far too impressionable, religiously. So Moses often used his own discretion on how the people should be cleaned out. God condoned it, but then as was said before regarding menstruation, this entire era of Biblical history, God allowed many things that were really not His will, and which of course, are forbidden to His people today. (As for the unmarried women, some may try to compare this to the rape that has occured in war in ancient times as well as today, but for one thing, "take for yourselves" means marriage, not forcing oneself on a woman and then leaving (which God always strictly forbade). And remember, back then, women were "given" in marriage, usually apart from their own will, anyway, and while that may not have been God's ultimate will, still with all the other important issues of the day, God was not going to stop and teach them our modern concepts of marriage then). This would later be repeated in Judges 21 with the people of Jabesh-gilead, a city of Israelites that failed to show up for the census, and thus broke an important oath. This however was neither God's instruction, but rather the sons of Jacob (fathers of the 12 tribes) who were in a state of infighting. So a lot of the killing we see recorded in the Bible is not really God's instruction, but just the decisions of men at war. In places like Numbers 21:1-3, 34,5, it was actually the entire nation of Israel's "vow" to God to utterly destroy them and "smite all the people, until there was none left alive". God granted the people into their hand to fulfil this, but did not necessarily command them to do it that extensively as to kill the children. Now, entering Deuteronomy, keep in mind that this is the "Second giving of the Law", and is the words of Moses (1:1-3) reiterating the commandments God had given Him. God commanded to drive out the pagan nations, and Moses would direct how these wars were to be carried out. So in chapter 7, he speaks of "utterly destroying" them, but does not specify children. It was the fighting men who would be killed, and the societies, and most importantly the religious items that were the focus. Then, in chapter 20, when instructing the Israelites on cleaning out what would become the Holy Land, the first method would be to "proclaim peace" to the city they arrive at (v.10). If they answer peaceably, then there would be no war. If they fight, then they were to besiege it and smite the males, but keep the women and little ones. However, of the six worst nations, the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, they were to "save nothing that breathes" (v.16,17). Once again, this was because of the utter defilement of those tribes, "that they teach you not to do all of their abominations which they have done unto their gods" (v.18) —including making the sacrifice of children (12:31), which God, in this last passage seemed to have a special hatred for.

Of course, this does not justify anyone taking such a matter into their own hands today. [Which is the concern of many critics, and why we should be able to explain this and not rest on simply "well, I don't know, but I just trust it must be right because God did it] Once again, this was the Old Testament, and the New Testament, which is God's final will, ushers in an age of grace, where God does not usually punish people with physical death for sin, but instead gives them a lifetime to repent. Jesus gave the parable of the wheat and tares (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) in which he warns his "servants" not to take it upon themselves to kill off the evil, "lest while you gather up the tares, you also uproot the wheat with them". God is not directly commanding us to kill the wicked as He sometimes did with Israel, and we do not have the eternal wisdom to do it ourselves. So God says that He Himself will separate the righteous from the wicked at the end of the age. If God thinks someone should die, He causes it Himself (Acts 5, 1 Corinthians 11:27-32). Once again, it is His right to do this. Yes, both Christians and Muslims have in fact, taken it upon themselves to be God's warriors of death on what they see as sinning cultures at times.

I've seen one person online ask why God had to command people to wipe them out, and not do it himself. That too was probably to teach the Israelites the gravity of sin, just like the animal sacrifices. Plus, as a nation in the world, God allowed them to have their wars, just like all others, and that was what was common in war, and still is. But once again, whatever the reason, this is obviously not what God commands or gives the authority to anyone to do now.

 

Great posts Scarlett O and Eric! You both had had great insight to offer the list. Thanks!

 

X, I do not understand why these verses frighten you. Please explain why you, as a Christian, should find these verses fearful, for I do not.

Nothing in thse verses indicate God's wrath upon those who trust in Him -- or did I miss that?

Thanks!