Schedule of the Multiple Crucifictions of Christ

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by saturneptune, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Note these two verses:

    For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
    1 Peter 3:18

    The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
    Romans 6:10

    Now, for months, no years, the SDA cult, and to a degree, the RCC representatives on this board have been given the freedom to misrepresent Christian doctrine, Scripture, and common sense to further their cultic values of slipping in and out of salvation. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The nonsense with worship on Saturday and the dung out of Ellen Whites warped mind just touch the surface.

    What I want to know is, for the saved person, what sin, by action, thought or motive, takes a person from saved to unsaved?

    For that second time unsaved person, what action, thought or motive regains salvation?

    And for the final question, since Christ died once for me and those who believe the Bible, would you please provide either historical evidence or Scriptural evidence of when and where Christ died for these multiple trips to the land of God's salvation?

    Is it possible He performed this while in South America to finish the Book of Mormon?
     
  2. OldRegular

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    S/N

    Thanks for starting this discussion and an effective OP. The teaching that a person, saved through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, can lose that salvation is a damnable doctrine because it not only calls into question the veracity of God but the Sovereignty of God.

    I had a preacher some years back who said: "A person can be saved as many times as Jesus Christ died." or words to that effect. I believe that point is well made in the OP.

    Of course those of the RCC crucify Him continually though they will deny it!
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Sadly "telling stories" about fictional idea such as " scheduling Multiple crucifixions" is not at all "sola scriptura" Bible study nor is it possible to refute Bible chapters such as Matt 18 and Romans 11 by making up stories. In Heb 10 we are told that those who are saved and then fall - lose their salvation - have crucified Christ afresh in their hearts - but this cannot be twisted into "those who believe the Bible warning about those who have fallen from Grace and been severed from Christ - are crucifying Christ afresh by believing the Bible". Such Bible avoidance bending of Heb 10 -- simply does not work.

    That idea does not work with those who are not married to tradition over the Bible.

    So then -- maybe it is time to look at Romans 11 without so much "Bible avoidance".

    It is difficult to believe that the solution to all the Bible avoidance being used on this thread so far to defend the man-made tradition of OSAS against the Bible - is to say negative things about Free Will Baptists, Methodists, Seventh-day Adventists and anyone else that choose the Bible over OSAS.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #3 BobRyan, Nov 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
  4. BobRyan

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    So first - Romans 11
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    Rom 11
    13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
    14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them.


    15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


    16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
    17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,


    18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
    19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”


    20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
    21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.


    22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

    23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
    .

    ===================

    The OSAS argument dies here at several points.

    1. It dies if the argument tries to ignore "
    But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles."

    2. it dies in that Paul's "Graft them in again" is specific to "
    move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them"
    3. And it dies in that the gentiles that ARE saved are being grafted in WITH THEM - with the "SOME" of the Jews that are saved. " you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them"

    4. And of course it dies in that the Gentile who 'stand by your faith" is being "Warned" about being cast into the lost position of those Jews who even OSAS people admit are lost.

    "
    the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off."

    ==============

    I believe we are free not to twist
    -wrench-bend this warning Paul gives to "you who stand by your faith". We need not bend the text in service to OSAS. We an instead let the warning stand just as it is.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    You see SN? Bible avoidance is not the solution to every challenge to your traditions. It pays to just accept the teaching of scripture even when it crosses one of your preferences.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Matt 18 is another place where OSAS is debunked in the teachings of Christ.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
    33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
    34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]



    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. OldRegular

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    Glad to learn that your Bible has something besides Romans 11. Much of what you quote from Romans 11 is a parable and is being misused by you whether you know it or not.

    I presented the following Scripture in other posts. You obviously choose to deny these Scripture. It appears you believe God is unable to accomplish what He promises.

    Hebrews 9:11-14
    11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
    12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


    John 10:27-31
    27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
    30. I and my Father are one.
    31. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.



    Will you be among those who take up stones to stone our Savior for the above remarks regarding His Sovereignty in Salvation and the Eternal Security of those He has saved? I expect you will!
     
  7. Zenas

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    If you believe in OSAS, you must of necessity also believe in one of the other of these things:

    1. You can enter into Heaven with unforgiven sin.
    or
    2. When you are saved, all your sins are forgiven--past, present and future.

    If you don't believe either of these, then you can't believe in OSAS.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    I believe in the Eternal Security of those redeemed by Jesus Christ because Scripture tells me so. I have posted relevant Scripture above.

    I would say it must be a miserable life not knowing from minute to minute whether or not you will spend eternity in hell.
     
  9. steaver

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    Number 2 :thumbs:
     
  10. Zenas

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    Thank you for your candor, friend. However, you have just nullified 1 John 1:9.
     
  11. steaver

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    You will need quite a bit more than 1John1:9 to prove that case.

    Did you ever study the duties of the High Priest?

    Did you know the High Priest makes atonement for the sins of His people?

    Did you know atonement was made REGARDLESS of any person's confession of any particular sin, but rather because God commanded atonement be made for His people?

    Did you know that Jesus cried out from the cross "It is finished!" ?

    Do you know what Jesus was speaking of when He said "It is finished"?

    Do a study on Jesus Christ our High Priest (Hebrews), I think you will change your mind about 1John1:9.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    The many excuses to ignore the teaching of Christ in the Gospel that do not fit traditions like OSAS - are endless.

    Matt 18 is another place where OSAS is debunked in the teachings of Christ.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
    33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
    34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]


    Notice that vs 35 is not a parable -- rather it is the dreaded application of the parable by Christ that OSAS does not survive.


    you simply "define terms to mean OSAS" to make your case instead of showing that to be true or supported in the Bible.

    By contrast - Paul argues that He does not want to lose salvation in 1Cor 9

    1Cor 9
    23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
    24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
    25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
    26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
    27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, lest after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified



    And of course - Matt 10:22 a text Biblicist likes to reference apparently.

    22 and ye shall be hated by all because of my name, but he who hath endured to the end, he shall be saved.

    As colorful as such vitriol is - I don't think the details in the texts you are avoiding support your assumptions.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. OldRegular

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    Those

    1. who deliberately and vehemently deny the teaching of Jesus Christ regarding the Eternal Security of those who are redeemed by His Sacrificial death,

    2. who teach that man can lose the Salvation Jesus Christ died for and yet gain that Salvation again, and again, and again, . , ., ......

    are doing much worse than stoning Him.

    3. They are calling Him, who knew no sin, a liar and are crucifying Him again and again and again, . , ., ......,

    Bob, your doctrine is a disgusting and pathetic lie; sadly you are not alone. It denies the Scriptural teaching of faith in Jesus Christ alone as Savior substituting instead the will and works of sinful man.

    I repeat below the Scripture I posted that resulted in your above remark:

    I would simply note that Jesus Christ obtained eternal redemption for us.. Now eternal redemption means eternal redemption!

    I would also note that Jesus Christ said: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish.. Eternal life means eternal life!
     
  14. preacher4truth

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    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10:14

    Bob and others who don't believe in the Biblical doctrine of eternal security generally mix up passages referring to the lost and apply them to the saved. But go figure. In SDAism there is no belief in the Deity of Christ, but this is the dangerous ground that is tread by dissident theology, always bringing down Christ, reducing Christ, and, exalting works, keeping the law, what THEY are doing, i.e. they must increase, He must decrease.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    The defense of OSAS against the Bible texts on forgiveness revoked (Matt 18) and "fallen from grace...Severed from Christ" Gal 5:4 is something of the form of "never mind it is just a warning to the LOST about the danger of being LostER" as Steaver resorts to in the statement above.

    When this is pointed out in the text they play that game with - well then usually you get "dead silence" and Bible-detail avoidance.

    Well they all have free will - they can choose Bible-avoidance if they wish.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. steaver

    steaver
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    I was teaching SS a few months back one Sunday and it was on the assurances of God found all throughout the bible, that in His sovereignty He accomplishes exactly what He promises He is going to do for His people. I was taking them through scripture after scripture (I had hundreds to choose from, OT and NT) which spoke of God's promise to bring His chosen ones through all their trails and tribulations, even those who rebel against Him for a time and selfishly determine to go their own way.

    After we had read through about 10 examples, one of the elders (the one I've mentioned before that doesn't like to hear OSAS) spoke up and said, "it sounds like you are teaching OSAS". We all got a chuckle out of it because they know Denny and I deliberate over OSAS frequently. What was so funny was that I didn't even have OSAS on my mind or in my lesson, I was teaching on how we can have assurance in God to see us through everything!! Even our own rebellion.
     
  17. kyredneck

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    Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Ro 4:8

    I'd rephrase your statement thus:

    'You can enter into Heaven with 'unimputed' sin'

    Example(s):

    The one in 1 Cor 5:5 was turned over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh and had lost his 'temporal salvation', but yet had retained his 'eternal salvation'. It holds true in the OT with the type; even after all the wickedness Israel had done in the wilderness after leaving Egypt (unbelief, disobedience, murmuring, idolatry, fornication, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to declare:

    He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21

    But the 'Exodus Generation' reaped for their wickedness after leaving Egypt, God sware in His wrath that they would not enter into the promised land, they wandered for forty years in the waste places.

    In the eternal sense yes, but in this temporal realm God chastises us often for our sin.

    Example:

    After his heinous sin of murder and adultery, and while David was yet unrepentant God sent Nathan to David and told him He had put his sin away, but the sword would never leave the house of David for what he had done.

    Question for you:

    Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; Let them not have dominion over me... Ps 19:13

    What do you think a 'presumptuous sin' is?
     
    #17 kyredneck, Nov 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2013
  18. saturneptune

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    Yes, you are a master at mixing verses to give a predetermined view. The question is, when did Christ die for all of those who lost their salvation? It is not a trick question.
     
  19. BobRyan

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    1. Nothing in Romans 11 is a parable.
    2. "Parable" is not synonymous with "pay no attention to this scripture".
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Romans 10 has your answer.

    Paul says "9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."



    ================================

    And of course ...



    Christ died 2000 years ago. "Once for All".

    as the "Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

    As the Protestants reminded the papacy "Bible avoidance is not the global solution you appear to have imagined".
     

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