Schuller's Place: To Go or Not?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Marcia, Dec 14, 2004.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia
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    A conference will be held at Schuller's Crystal Cathedral in January on church leadership. Speakers include Robert H. Schuller, Robert A. Schuller, Jack Hayford, Bill Hybels, Ruth Graham and others. The info on this is here
    http://www.crystalcathedral.org/rhsi/index.cfm?

    I know that some think it's okay to speak at Schuller's crystal palace -- uh, I mean cathedral --- because that does not necessarily mean they agree with all his theology. Others believe it best not to participate at all.

    And is there a difference between speaking at such a conference and just attending? It seems to me that speaking at such a conference gives an understood endorsement to Schuller's theology.

    Whacha y'all think? [​IMG]
     
  2. av1611jim

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    Two thoughts. Both contradictory. :confused:
    First, it may be argued that Paul had no compunctions with going to synagogues, and "assemblies of heathens" to preach the Gospel. It could be said that he did this knowing they were false teachers and unbelievers. It could be said that he became "all things to all men that he might win some". For documentation read the book of Acts.

    Second, folks will argue that Paul's ministry excepted him since he was an Apostle. They would argue the issue of ecclesiastical seperation from known error and false teachers. Paul's many epistles also testify to this issue. They would also say that Paul's admonition to "mark them and seperate" extends our individual lives as well and precludes us from attending such functions.

    So there you have it. Personally, I would not go near the place, nor that man. (That grin of his is EVIL! :eek: ) LoL

    In HIs service;
    Jim
     
  3. Marcia

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    av1611jim, thanks for your thoughts.

    However, I would say that Paul teaching in the synagogues was not the same thing as going to a place where false teachings exist, since synagogues were where officially the laws of God were taught. Even though there were false teachings by the Pharisees, Judaism as it is in the OT was not wrong. Also, Jesus attended synagogue and taught there as well.

    As far as going to the "assembly of heathens," these were not official spiritual gathering places. I don't think Paul ever preached in the temple of Diana/Artemis or something like that.
     
  4. gb93433

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    Paul preached in the synagogue of unbelievers. So did Jesus. Paul preached in Corinth at the church there amidst the pagan stuff going on on the church.
     
  5. All about Grace

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    Go and learn as much as possible.
    As with any conference, you will not agree with all the speakers.
    The great thing about basic leadership principles is that most of them transcend theology. In other words, they can be taught and learned regardless of one's theological persuasion.
     
  6. Broadus

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    I wouldn't attend this conference, and it has nothing to do with preaching opportunities. That analogy doesn't work because you're not being asked to lead but to listen.

    I disagree with what the men you listed understand the church to be and what biblical leadership is. And BTW, theology does matter. You cannot disconnect one's theology from one's methodology. One's methodology is ultimately informed by one's theology.

    If you're looking for a good church leadership conference to attend, I would recommend the Shepherd's Conference at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. Check it out at http://www.gracechurch.org/shepnew . If you want worldly pragmatism, go to Schuller's. That may sound harsh, but we live in a generation that has the largest and most churches and the most biblically illiterate members.

    Bill
     
  7. Johnv

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    SOme on this board have attended in the past. My own pastor has attended in the past. I know two local pastors who will be attending this time. The comments of those who have attended have been generally positive.

    From what I hear, this will be the final institute.

    If you want to go, then go. If you don't then don't. If someone you know is going, but you wouldn't attend, let them go in peace.
     
  8. All about Grace

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    You cannot disconnect one's theology from one's methodology. One's methodology is ultimately informed by one's theology.

    But neither should one's theology and methodology be held in equal regard. Theology and Methodology are distinct and different. There are many churches who have made methodology into theology and they are shriveling on the vine.
     
  9. Bro Tony

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    I agree with Broadus. There are other leadership conferences that can be attended. I would no more go to this conference than to one sponsored by Moon. To go is to condone.
    That's my .02 cents.

    Bro Tony
     
  10. StraightAndNarrow

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    I'm sorry but I don't know exactly what it is about Schuler, Bill Hybels, Ruth Graham, etc. that you have problems with. I myself have always felt that Schuler has not really preached the true gospel but rather a "feel good / prosperity" message like Norman Vincent Peale did. There's a place for that but not necessarily in the pulpit. I had the same problem with the Prayer of Jabez craze that went around a couple of years ago. Is that your concern as well?
     
  11. LadyEagle

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    Will Benny Hinn be there?
     
  12. gb93433

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    Why should I listen to you? You are not perfect.


    You are right when you wrote, "You cannot disconnect one's theology from one's methodology." So that puts most Christians as pagans and atheists because the majority are not winning people to Christ and even fewer are discipling anyone. If what you wrote is true then their theology is worthless because their methodology is producing nothing more than direct disobedience.
     
  13. gb93433

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    I certainly would not attend any SBC conferences on church growth. A friend of mine who was pastoring a poor church at the time went to a church growth conference put on by the SBC. After returning he told me hey suggested that for one to start a chruch it should be started in the wealthier part of town. This is the conservative SBC.

    Kinda seems to me that if those church growth and leadership folks would get out there and talk with people they might have the same answer Jesus gave to his disciples. He sent them out two by two.
     
  14. Marcia

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. Marcia

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    But that is not the same as preaching in the temple of Diana or being in a place where the teachings have consistently been unbiblical.

    I just disagree with your analogy of the synagogue with a church where the only and main preacher has not been preaching the true gospel and is basically New Thought.
     
  16. Marcia

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    I want to clarify that I was never thinking of attending this -- I am not asking because I'm considering it.

    The OP may have been misleading. I was just wanting to get views on what people on the BB think about attending one of these conferences.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

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    I would opt to stay far away. These are not the fellow believers that they pretend to be. They are not to be followed or fellowshiped with, but rebuked.

    "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."
     
  18. All about Grace

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    I want to clarify that I was never thinking of attending this -- I am not asking because I'm considering it.

    Your choice. You will probably miss out on some valuable truths regarding leadership. But if you cannot separate the true from the false, stay away.

    By the way if I stayed away from all gatherings where those with whom I had major disagreements were involved, I would not be able to attend any conference.
     
  19. All about Grace

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    I would opt to stay far away. These are not the fellow believers that they pretend to be. They are not to be followed or fellowshiped with, but rebuked.

    Bob, it amazes me how inconsistent you are regarding Schuller and his cohorts and the Saddleback model. Your continual insistence to bifurcate Warren from Schuller & Hybels is humorous at times. Warren admits candidly how much Schuller influenced his thinking. Indeed anyone who has studied the seeker movement realizes the impact of Schuller upon Warren & Hybels (and Hybels & Warren's influence upon each other). To deny this is to deny what the men themselves admit.

    Don't get me wrong. I am a HUGE Warren & Hybels fan. And both have distinctions from Schuller and from each other. At the same time, they each recognize the influence of one another upon their own ministries.
     
  20. Broadus

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    I could not disagree more vehemently. It is impossible to disjoin the two. The pragmatism of these folks' theology directly impacts the pragmatism of their methodology. Unfortunately, too many "conservatives" are conservative in name only. They contradict what they claim to be their theology with their methodology. One's methodology reveals whether one is serious about what one claims to believe.

    Bill
     

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