SCRIPTURAL PROOF FOR ROMAN CATHOLICISM!!!

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by rbrent, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. rbrent

    rbrent
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    Here are ALL the Scriptures which mention:

    (1) The Rosary

    (2) Purgatory

    (3) Limbo

    (4) Papal Infallibility

    (5) Mary as Co-Mediatrix

    (6) Mary as Co-Redemptrix

    (7) Cardinals

    (8) Assumption of Mary

    (9) Holy Water

    (10) Baby Sprinkling

    (11) Sacrament of Extreme Unction

    (12) Pope as Vicar of Christ

    (13) Transubstantiation

    (14) The Wafer ‘god’

    Okay, here are ALL THE SCRIPTURES which Prove these Roman Catholic teachings are true....
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -


    Oops! I forgot - ROMAN CATHOLICISM is not based on the Scriptures.

    Its main teachings are man-made nonsense with NO BASIS IN THE SCRIPTURES! [​IMG]

    HEY - IF I'm wrong, please help me out.

    Be so kind as to list the verses which support the above teachings of Roman Catholicism.
     
  2. MikeS

    MikeS
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    Hey rbrent (BTW, why the lower-case name and all the UPPER CASE THREAD SUBJECTS? Just wondering...),

    Since you're so fired up to find Scriptural support for the Catholic faith, why don't you start by proving that the Scriptures (precisely, the 66 books of your bible) are the entire revealed truth of God.
     
  3. GraceSaves

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    You can start by disproving the 8 points presented in Carson's thread, which is surprisingly devoid of Baptist replies.
     
  4. rbrent

    rbrent
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    MikeS wrote:
    Boy Howdy MikeS, are you saying its okay to go outside the scriptures and make up stuff to believe?

    Wow, what a "fun" religion that would be!

    We could make up stuff like:

    (1) Fatima Apparitions

    (2) Lourdes Holy Water

    (3) Indulgences

    (4) Crusades to kill Jews and Moslems

    (5) Inquisitions to kill Christians and Jews

    That would be so entertaining!

    And we could take turns hurling "Anathemas" and "Excommunications" at those who disagree with us...

    Wow, maybe I have been missing a lot by not joining "holy mother church"!!!
     
  5. GraceSaves

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    Here's a few answers to the silly ones.

    The Rosary is not in Scripture (in that format) because it is merely a devotional prayer. It has no need to be "found" in Scripture any more than your daily prayers.

    This has never been a teaching of the Catholic Church. There were times of speculation, but it was never embraced or taught as Truth.

    So now "Cardinals" are "teachings?" Cardinals oversee wider areas than archbishops, who oversee larger areas than bishops, who oversee larger areas than priests. The world expanded, and the priest-bishop-archbishop-cardinal-pope is a line that connects the Body of Christ together in unity of teaching.

    Umm, ever read the book of James? Is anyone among you sick? Bring the elders in and annoint them with oil...their sins will be forgiven.

    Jesus is the shepard, but He instructed Peter to feed His sheep. Not that difficult.

    I believe in only one God, not one that is a "wafer." But you knew that already.
     
  6. GraceSaves

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    rbrent,

    Congratulations. You didn't answer his ONE question to you (while you ask of us many). That takes talent. Your prize is in the mail.
     
  7. MikeS

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    Try again. First prove that your 66 books are the entire and inerrant revealed truth from God. Only then can we discuss whether aspects of the Catholic faith are "outside" that entire and inerrant revealed truth.
     
  8. WPutnam

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    The Rosary is not in Scripture (in that format) because it is merely a devotional prayer. It has no need to be "found" in Scripture any more than your daily prayers.

    This has never been a teaching of the Catholic Church. There were times of speculation, but it was never embraced or taught as Truth.

    So now "Cardinals" are "teachings?" Cardinals oversee wider areas than archbishops, who oversee larger areas than bishops, who oversee larger areas than priests. The world expanded, and the priest-bishop-archbishop-cardinal-pope is a line that connects the Body of Christ together in unity of teaching.

    Umm, ever read the book of James? Is anyone among you sick? Bring the elders in and annoint them with oil...their sins will be forgiven.

    Jesus is the shepard, but He instructed Peter to feed His sheep. Not that difficult.

    I believe in only one God, not one that is a "wafer." But you knew that already.
    </font>[/QUOTE]An excellant reply, GraceSaves!

    As for the Rosary, I would suggest rbrent take the prayers found within and note from where in scripture they can be found, starting with the Lord's Prayer which begins each decade of the Rosary.

    NOTE: I am having a good time relaxing, noting all of the new faces lately with good Catholic apologetics who have come on line and are defending the faith! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    I believe in God,
    the Father Almighty,
    Creator of heaven and earth;
    and in Jesus Christ, His only Son,
    Our Lord;
    who was conceived by the holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died,
    and was buried.

    He descended into hell;
    the third day He arose again from the dead;
    He ascended into heaven,
    sitteth at the right hand of God,
    the Father almighty;
    from thence He shall come to judge
    the living and the dead.

    I believe in the holy Spirit,
    the Holy Catholic Church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and life everlasting.

    Amen.


    - The Apostles Creed -
     
  9. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    rbrent,

    I was lucky enough to have been sent a copy of "Catholic Doctrine in Scripture", a list compiled by college students. Unfortunately it isn't a book that has been published. It lists nearly 100 doctrines and behind that the scriptures. It is 80 pages long and about 90% of it is nothing but scripture. I've already given away my extra copy or I'd send you one.

    Your post makes a very good point though- you don't care to take any time to do anything but push your biased half-truth misconceptions around about something you don't understand. If you truly want to make any impression at all, take a deep breath, pick one topic, and start by asking the Catholics on the board why they believe what they do, how they back it up, and then be quiet and listen.
     
  10. rbrent

    rbrent
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    My two posts above in this thread listed 19 peculiar things about Catholicism.

    Everyone - take your pick.

    Please give me three scriptures to back up each of the 19 items I listed in my previous posts in this thread.

    I'll make it easier.

    Please give me just two scriptures for each of the items I listed - scriptures which prove/support Catholic teaching.

    IF Roman Catholicism is based on the Bible, it will be EASY for good Catholics to give just two scriptures to support your teaching on each of the above topics.
     
  11. GraceSaves

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    rbrent,

    Are you listening? You listed "limbo" as a Catholic teaching. I trust your understanding just about none.
     
  12. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    rbent,
    You asked for it. [​IMG]
     
  13. GraceSaves

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    This is coming from the person who consideres The Passion of the Christ to be a tool of Satan to soften up the world to Catholicism.
     
  14. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Since you only ask for 2 scripture references, that's all i'll give here.

    (1) The Rosary

    The Rosary is a counting tool. I'll give you scriptural support for the Rosary beads when you give me scriptural support for church pews, steeples, AWANA, potluck dinners, and icecream at fellowships. "Saying" the rosary are prayers and asking for intercession.

    Support for praying:
    Matthew 21:22
    Mark 24:25

    For intercession:
    1 timothy 2:1-3
    Matt. 5:44

    (2) Purgatory

    I listed a whole bunch in the other thread. Please go there to read what purgatory is. If you think its a "place" your too far off on your understanding to read scriptures on it.

    Here are three:
    Rev. 21:27
    1 Cor. 3:15
    2 Sam. 12:13-14

    (3) Limbo

    Catholics don't believe this

    (4) Papal Infallibility

    A couple that support it:
    Luke 10:16
    Romans 13:2
    John 11:47-52

    (5) Mary as Co-Mediatrix
    (6) Mary as Co-Redemptrix

    These two walk hand in hand so i put them together:

    Luke 1:26-38


    (7) Cardinals

    You'll have to be more specific I guess. A Cardinal is a person who holds office in the Church, it is not a "teaching" or "doctrine"

    (8) Assumption of Mary

    We know there have been others to be assumed into heaven: Genesis 5:24, Heb 11:5, 2 Kings 2:1-13

    Also see Rev. 11:19-12:1 for support of Mary's Assumption.

    (9) Holy Water

    Holy water also is not a "doctrine". Perhaps you want to ask about the role of a priest? Or the blessing of objects? Have you ever said grace at a table?

    Instances of water that has been blessed: Num 5:17, 8:7, Ex 30:18-19, 29:4, Lev 8:6, 1 Kings 7:38-39

    (10) Baby Sprinkling

    Infant baptism, in other words. Perhaps its better to ask the purpose of baptism? In the OT consent to enter the faith is not asked for, as it takes place at 8 days of age. Gen 17:12.

    See: Acts 2:38-39
    Col. 2:11-12
    Acts 16:15
    Lk 18:15-17

    (11) Sacrament of Extreme Unction

    James 5:13-15 and whenever an apostle heals someone.

    (12) Pope as Vicar of Christ

    Matt. 16:15-19
    1 Cor. 15:3-5

    (13) Transubstantiation

    John 6

    (14) The Wafer ‘god’

    This is the reason you're not taken seriously. The study or teaching of any subject demands the teachers respect. If your going to teach a class the tenants of the Muslim faith, you do not insult it. By your insult and lack of respect and decency, you lose credability. This, above your fundamental lack of knowledge of what the faith teaches.
     
  15. rbrent

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    Brother Adam-
    Thank you for at least attempting to reply I appreciate that. Did you bother to look up the verses you listed below?

    I ask because the verses you listed do not mention or refer to the subjects we're discussing except for two of them and those must be twisted wildly out of context to have the meaning you ascribe to them...

    BROTHER ADAM WROTE:
    “The Rosary is a counting tool. I'll give you scriptural support for the Rosary beads when you give me scriptural support for church pews, steeples, AWANA, potluck dinners, and icecream at fellowships. "Saying" the rosary are prayers and asking for intercession.”

    Support for praying: but the issue isn't praying - its the whole pagan Catholic concept of the Rosary and that the Rosary offers grace and cleansing and forgiveness, etc.)

    Matthew 21:22 - No Mention of the Rosary.
    Mark 24:25 - Mark has only 16 chapters in my Bible.
    1 timothy 2:1-3 - No mention of the Rosary.
    Matt. 5:44 - No mention of the Rosary.

    You’re comparing apples to oranges.
    Baptists and Protestants (which Baptists are not) do not attach superstitious significance to church pews, steeples, AWANA, potluck dinners and ice cream at fellowships

    like Catholics attach superstitious significance to the Rosary.

    And the things you listed are not borrowed from the pagan practices of Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam like the Rosary practice is.

    The steeple is considered by some to be a pagan thing but then, the church I attend does NOT have a steeple and no church I ever pastored had a steeple so you’ll have to find someone else to defend steeples.

    (2) Purgatory

    You say - I listed a whole bunch in the other thread. Please go there to read what purgatory is. If you think its a "place" your too far off on your understanding to read scriptures on it.

    Here are three:
    Rev. 21:27 - Absolutely no mention of purgatory.
    1 Cor. 3:15 - Absolutely no mention of purgatory.
    2 Sam. 12:13-14 - Absolutely no mention of purgatory.

    (3) Limbo - Catholics don't believe this (according to you).

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/limbo.htm says:

    “The Church has not made a clear statement on the fate of the souls of newborns, etc., who die before reaching an age or state of accountability. However, since souls are indestructible, they must be present in some state or location. Many Catholic theologians and clergy have speculated that they go to an actual place or state of existence, which has been traditionally been called "Limbo". A Catholic dictionary states that " The great majority of [Roman Catholic] theologians teach that such children and unbaptized adults free from grievous actual sin enjoy eternally a state of perfect natural happiness, knowing and loving God by the use of their natural powers. This place and state is commonly called Limbo. "6The word is derived from the Latin word " lumbus " which means a fringe, edge, hem or border. It implies that Limbo is neither in Heaven or Hell, but is an in-between location or state of being.”

    (4) Papal Infallibility - A couple that support it:

    Luke 10:16 - No mention of Papal Infallibility.
    Romans 13:2 - No mention of Papal Infallibility.
    John 11:47-52 - No mention of Papal Infallibility.

    (5) Mary as Co-Mediatrix

    (6) Mary as Co-Redemptrix

    These two walk hand in hand so i put them together:

    Luke 1:26-38 - No mention of Mary as Co-Mediatrix and no mention of Mary as Co-Redemptrix.

    (8) Assumption of Mary

    We know there have been others to be assumed into heaven: Genesis 5:24, Heb 11:5, 2 Kings 2:1-13

    Also see Rev. 11:19-12:1 for support of Mary's Assumption.

    AGAIN, No mention of the Assumption of Mary.

    (10) Baby Sprinkling

    Infant baptism, in other words. Perhaps its better to ask the purpose of baptism? In the OT consent to enter the faith is not asked for, as it takes place at 8 days of age. Gen 17:12. No infant sprinkling in Genesis.

    See: Acts 2:38-39 - No infants getting sprinkled in Acts 2.

    Col. 2:11-12 - No infants getting sprinkled here.

    Acts 16:15 - No infants getting sprinkled here - does any Catholic Bible anywhere have infants getting sprinkled in Acts 16:15?

    Lk 18:15-17 - Infants are in this passage but they were brought so Jesus could touch them NOT sprinkle them.

    (11) Sacrament of Extreme Unction

    James 5:13-15 and whenever an apostle heals someone.
    I’ve heard this one used before but my goodness, that’s a huge stretch to make it a proof text for Extreme Unction.

    James, after all, is not addressed to Catholics or Baptists - James 1:1 - “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.”

    (12) Pope as Vicar of Christ

    Matt. 16:15-19 - Mentions Peter but what a huge stretch to accept the teaching of the Catechism based on this passage which does NOT place Peter in the position the Catholic Church places him...
    1 Cor. 15:3-5 - No mention of Vicar of Christ.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church
    936 The Lord made St. Peter the visible foundation of his Church. He entrusted the keys of the Church to him. The bishop of the Church of Rome, successor to St. Peter, is "head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the universal Church on earth" (CIC, can. 331).

    882 The Pope , Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."

    891 "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful

    BUT according to the scriptures, the Holy Spirit - NOT THE POPE is the teacher of the church.

    "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

    "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..." John 16:13

    Jesus promised that this infallible teacher would abide with us forever:

    "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:16

    The Pope cannot fill the office of the Spirit of God.

    "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's {the Pope} wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth..." 1 Corinthians 2:12-13


    (13) Transubstantiation

    John 6 - Again, No Mention of Transubstantiation.

    Jesus was sitting with them at the table eating.

    He DID NOT offer them His literal, physical blood to drink or His literal, physical flesh to eat.

    He clearly states in John 6:63

    ”...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

    He is speaking spiritually, not literally or physically.

    I'LL ASK AGAIN - How about 2 verses on each subject which prove the teachings of the Catholic Church about these issues?
     
  16. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    And this is where I end my dialogue as I can't afford to spend any more time with someone who will do nothing but scream at the top of their lungs without being willing to listen and learn. For your own good man, I've got to end it here.

    2 Peter 2:1-22
    But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. [4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; [5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; [6] And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; [7] And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: [8] (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) [9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: [10] But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. [11] Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. [12] But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; [13] And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; [14] Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: [15] Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [16] But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. [17] These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. [18] For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. [19] While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. [21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. [22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    2 Peter 1:20-21
    Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    [ February 07, 2004, 02:35 AM: Message edited by: Brother Adam ]
     
  17. rbrent

    rbrent
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    Brother Adam wrote:
    Now calm down Brother Adam, okay, calm down. Everything is going to be all right. I’ll try to help you.

    Take a deep breath. Count to ten slowly.

    I looked up the scriptures you presented. I read them. By no stretch of the imagination would anyone unfamiliar with Catholic teaching, read those verses and believe they teach what the Catholic Church alleges they teach.

    The reason is that those verses don’t say what you apparently think they say.

    If you’re going to discuss doctrine and the scriptures, you can’t just cite a scripture reference as your authority and then expect folks to accept your position when the verse you cite has nothing to do with the position you hold.

    See how that works?

    Now, once again, I’ll type it r e a l s l o w l y for you.

    This thread started with the following proposition:

    None of the Catholics who replied gave any scriptures that mentioned The Rosary or Purgatory or the other Catholic Heresies you folks believe.

    Do you understand it now? You don’t have a religion based on scripture.

    If you did, you could give verses that mention the specific beliefs your church holds.


    So, here is the question again for any Catholic who knows enough Bible to answer.

    Would you give me just 2 verses that mention the Roman Catholic fantasy called purgatory?
     
  18. Harley4Him

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    See how this works? I'm gonna say it r e a l s l o w for ya. When you read the bible looking for specific catch phrases, you don't always find what you want. Try finding Trail of Blood, Altar Call, Landmark, Independent Fundiemental or any of that stuff.
     
  19. MikeS

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    Wow, condescending to boot! :rolleyes:

    I really like the part about typing real slowly. That'll definitely make the text show up real slowly on Bro. Adam's screen! [​IMG]
     
  20. BobRyan

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    #1. There are no such texts to give. So "dancing around the point" will be "the answer".

    #2. "Equivocating" as in "The Bible mentions prayer - so its ok to pray to the Dead in Christ".

    Or "The Bible mentions suffering ... so the dead suffer in Purgatory" .. is as close to a "text for purgatory" or a "text for praying to the Dead in Christ" that you will get.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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