The other thread reached its limit and was closed. Luke... You have it completely wrong. It has nothing to do with certain people being "better". Its the lost who have the "I'm a good enough person, I think I'll be good enough to make it" mentality. We who embrace Christ do so because we recognize our depravity and sinfullness. Christ died to pay the penalty for every sin ever commited, or will be commited. Gods saving gosple if justification through faith alone. NOT for just the "lucky ones" that God supposedly "elects", but rather for the "who soever wills" As I understand "arminianism" it is what I just articulated, and NOT the erronious view that you articulated. It has nothing to do with being better. It has to do with recieving Gods mercy. Yes. Luke, Christ is the one who said... No. I came to Christ because I knew that I was an "undone" lost , wreched person. A sinner. No, no no. I came to Christ because I was wretched. No. I came to Christ because I knew that I was wretched, and undone. Because God gives every person who ever lives the opportunity to turn from sin, and pridefull self sufficientcy, and turn to Gods provision, found in Christ. How can a wreched man be better than others? You are erecting a strawman.