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Scriptures that Teach Particular Redemption !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Well, yes. And God gave his sheep the gift of both.

    Again, our repentance and faith do not satisfy God's justice. Only the death of His Son does that.

    God's justice demands that every sin be punished. So he punished the Son. And can, therefore, be just in forgiving our sin.

    If all this is true, then there is only one plausible explanation for why some God to Hell and some are saved. We call it Particular Redemption.
     
    #21 Tom Butler, Feb 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2012
  2. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    Jesus death paid in full the entire sin debt owed to God by us, and the means by which we appropiate the Grace of the Cross towards our account, and even the repentance /faith God requires is given to us as hree gifts by God, as part of His plan of salvation!
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    tom

    Thats right tom ! Unbelief is a sin like any other sin !
     
  4. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    except unbelief, not willing to come to Christ is the sin that cannot ever be pardoned by God!
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Let me walk through this scenario.

    Up to the day the Lord saved me, I was an unbeliever.

    Since He saved me, it follows that Jesus died for that sin of unbelief. Otherwise it would still be hanging over me. That's because God forgives sin based on the atoning work of the Son. Outside the blood of Jesus Christ, no one can be forgiven for their sins, including unbelief.

    Of course, repentance and faith bring forgiveness of sin. But not apart from the atonement.

    I repeat, if Jesus doesn't pay, I will pay.
     
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Thats a Lie..
     
  7. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    God will forgive one whose wilfull desire is to reject jesus and deny means to getting saved by grace of God?
     
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    You are lying against the Truth. If Christ died for ones sins, then that would include unbelief, for it is a sin.
     
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Christ died for the sin of unbelief like He died for any other sin !



    1 Cor 15:3

    3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    1 Pet 2:24

    Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    Unbelief is a sin according to God's word Rom 14:23

    And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

    This apply's to the believer and unbeliever ! Unbelief in the unregenerate makes God a Liar 1 Jn 5:10

    He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

    Even the Elect, while unregenerate, and opposing the external revelation of the Gospel, its doctrines and Truth's, we are sinning and making God a Liar, because at that time we believe not the record or testimony God gave of His Son, through a faithful witness of the Gospel of Christ, as to who He is, and what He has accomplished for God and God's Chosen People !

    Ps 78:31-32

    31The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.

    32For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.

    Another scripture that clearly identifies unbelief as a sin !

    Now, if Christ died for ones sins, it covers all their trespasses Col 2:13

    And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    Ps 85:2

    Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.

    If Christ died for our sins, then unbelief is included and it would be unjust for God to punish anyone Christ died for because of their unbelief, and in fact He doesn't, because He cannot deny Himself His Faithfulness to the accomplishments of His Son's Death , so Paul writes 2 Tim 2:13

    If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    God must be Faithful and Just to forgive our sins, for Christ's sake 1 Jn 1:9

    9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    This action of God's is not predicated upon our confessing our sins as it may seem to be saying, but upon the Work of Christ on our behalf !

    Anyone teaching that people go to hell for unbelief, in spite of the fact that Christ died for all their sins, they teach a false gospel, and make God to be unjust !
     
  10. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    I am refering to staying in a continual state of denying jesus as Saviour...

    That sin cannot be forgiven by God, as person keep refusing the only way to get that sin covered for!
     
  11. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    he died for the sin of unbelief for those whom would be redemned, but did not die for unbelief of those rejecting Him!
     
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Correct, because he did not die for their sins ! If He did, they would cease rejecting Him and Believe on Him. Thats what His death effects, it redeems those He died for from all iniquity Titus 2:14

    14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Zech 12:10



    A Limited Atonement or Particular Redemption for a certain People instead of everyone in the world without exception is seen when we read and understand Zech 12:10

    10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    The House of David, the inhabitants of Jerusalem is another way of saying the Elect apart from the rest of the World.

    Chosen Gentiles are of the House of David or the Tabernacle of David Acts 15:14-16

    14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

    15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

    16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

    Thats why Paul began Romans which is a book to both jews and gentiles with this statement Rom 1:1-3

    1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

    2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

    3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Gentiles were to Trust in this seed of David Rom 15:12

    12And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

    Why ? Because He is rebuilding the Tabernacle of David Acts 15:16 and so they are included in Zech 12:10, as the House of David !
     
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Scriptures that do teach definite redemption !



    Another verse that indicates that Christ redemptive death was for a specific people, and not the whole world in general is Heb 2:16-17

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


    It was the things pertaining to God that Christ would make reconciliation for the sins of the People !

    In the greek people is preceded by the definite article indicating a specific definite people. Notice, He partook of flesh and blood, to make reconciliation [ propitious ] for the sins of the people, specifically the seed of Abraham in vs 16

    Now that does not translate to all the people in the world without exception. Reconciliation by His Death Heb 2:9, Rom 5:10, 2 Cor 5:19 was restricted to His people in the world, the seed of Abraham, an Elect people; Now to goo beyond this is a false Gospel message ! So it is reprehensible to force other scriptures on reconciliation and propitiation such as Col 1:21 ; 1 Jn 2:2 beyond the definite scope given by Heb 2:16-17 !
     
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: A completely false conclusion, not anywhere suggested by the passage itself. The seed of Abraham merely speaks to the humanity of Christ. "The sins of the people" in no way is limited to a particular group of individuals, but rather is a universal comment, Christ giving His life for the sins of humanity.

    1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
     
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    I can only show you the scripture, cannot cause you to believe it ! Everyone is not the seed of Abraham, thats a specific people group. The egyptians were not the seed of Abraham, but they were human beings. Christ took on the Seed of Abraham, a particular people group out from all other Human Beings. Like He told them here Deut 7:6

    6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
     
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: OK. I will concede that you have a point and that I was not entirely correct, for He was of a specific seed as well. Just wondering , did direct blood lines have anything to do with being a descendant of Abraham?

    The point is that regardless of the blood of Christ being of a specific bloodline, Christ died for all NOT just a particular group of blood relatives or even of a particular group of those following Abrahams faith. Christ made an atonement for the sins of the whole world. I completely understand how such a thought will throw your held beliefs into a tailspin, but is the gospel truth.
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Scriptures that do teach definite redemption !



    Another scripture that that teaches Jesus death was for a specific people is This one Heb 12:24

    24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    He is the Mediator of the New Covenant or the Better Covenant, which has been established upon better promises Heb 8:6

    6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

    But this is only to a specific people the scripture says Heb 8:8,10

    8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:[a specific people]

    10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel[a specific people] after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    And Christ's Death, Blood shed is in accordance with or according to that Better or New Covenant of which He is the Mediator of Matt 26:28

    28For this is my blood of the new testament or covenant, which is shed for many[specific people] for the remission of sins. So consequently we do error when we fail to realize His Mediatoral Position is restricted to some men 1 Tim 2:5

    5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    The men here cannot be none other than those of the House of Israel Heb 8:6,8,10 The Covenant People, the Seed of Abraham. So Christ is not the Mediator of all men without exception or all men in general, else He would have never said this Jn 17:9

    9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

    Those words would have been wrong if He was Mediator of all men in the world without exception ! He was and is Mediator of the New Covenant People the House of Israel !
     
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    hp

    Only if we are talking about the physical seed of abraham, but no if we are speaking of His Spiritual Seed.

    His Spiritual Seed belongs to Christ and those are the ones He came and Identified with in the flesh !

    Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Church/It



    That Christ died for a specific people is shown by Eph 5:25,23

    25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

    And vs 23

    23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

    These verses enlightens us as to whom Christ is a Saviour unto, not the world without exception, but the World of His Body the Church !

    Again, the word world[kosmos] in scripture is defined as these:

    an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
    ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
    the world, the universe
    the circle of the earth, the earth
    the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
    the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
    world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ

    any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
    of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19

    The word world can mean believers only, meaning only those that finally believe are the world God Loved or Christ died for !

    Or any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort is a World.

    For instance all Christ's Sheep, the collection of them all unto one fold as Jesus states here Jn 10:16

    16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    One fold or one gathering or collection ! So the Collection of all Christ Sheep is a World !

    The Church is His World also !

    So Eph 5:25 teaches Particular Redemption for only a certain People , the Church !
     
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