SDA Hospital Doing Abortions

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by utilyan, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. utilyan

    utilyan
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    SDA hospitals are committing abortions.
    Your doctors are doing it. Your CHURCH is getting MONEY FOR KILLING CHILDREN.
    The official stance is not against.
    Have the SDA guideline call it murder, they don't.
    Search for the truth, Google this subject. That's why they have groups called SDA for LIFE because internal revolt.
    The reason the SDA church is not against abortion on the principle that it would be "A step back towards Rome" and "we are confronted by hunger and overpopulation"
    Its more worried about ROME being right about anything even the issue of KILLING CHILDREN.
    The SDA church teaching is NOT against abortion, It slightly frowns on ending "Pregnancies". READ THE SDA guidelines.
    https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/abortion/
    You can't for example tell a woman not to get an abortion.
    "Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom." --SDA Abortion guidelines.
    The guidelines say:
    4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals;
    9) God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to abuse and tragic consequences.
    Basically the guidelines say don't bother people who want an abortion, God gives them freedom of CHOICE, God is PRO CHOICE. The church is not a conscience for individuals
    .....yet time after time we get endless yapping condemning us for not worshipping on day you demand.
    Well buddy the tables have turned. Your going to get endless yapping for supporting the murder of children.
    SDA hospitals are murdering children and the money goes to the SDA CHURCH.
    Do a YOU TUBE search on SDA and ABORTION.
    You are going to see SDA members SHOCKED. People who have not left the church and try to explain what I am telling you.
    Which issue is more important? Worshipping God with full sincerity but mistakenly on the wrong day, Or intentionally and knowingly murdering children?
    Thou shalt not kill is a commandment of GOD!
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Well - while I don't claim to have control over every hospital on earth - and neither does the SDA church - I am thankful that approving abortion is not one of our doctrinal statements and that the church admits that "human life" is what we are talking about in the case of the unborn child.

    "1) Prenatal human life is a magnificent gift of God. God's ideal for human beings affirms the sanctity of human life, in God's image, and requires respect for prenatal life. However, decisions about life must be made in the context of a fallen world. Abortion is never an action of little moral consequence. Thus prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly destroyed."

    I myself would prefer an even stronger statement.
     
  3. utilyan

    utilyan
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    What part of SDA HOSPITALS do ABORTIONS do you not understand?

    I'm not talking about all hospitals in the world.

    Your church collects, gets paid, on the business of killing children.

    These are SDA ran HOSPITALS. Your church can say.....WE will not do abortions and its a done deal. BUT because that would be admitting "a step towards ROME" losing out on government funds, tax breaks ect. Its just better worth MURDERING CHILDREN.

    If you look at official statements it will make you sick.

    Your church has become the greater monster then you could ever hoped Catholics to be, because abortion doesn't give a rats fanny what day those children worship.


    I bet you one day, years from now. SDA church will say ABORTION is murder. And you going turn around and say it was our idea cause the CATHOLICS have to be evil.



    Get this even though your church OPENLY murders children. Do we say your church is ran by Satan or your organization is diabolical? NO we don't.

    Matthew 10
    24“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25“It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!

    Its in the bible, The Church of Jesus has to get a worst rap then Beelzebul.

    I looked for it.......There is only one church I repeatedly hear get called whore of Babylon, with its leaders being called the anti-Christ.


    PS. I know your a good person Rob, I know your not for abortion and I doubt even 1% SDA members are for it. I think if you guys showed some commitment to remove the plank from your own eye it might help against the speck of folks who mistakenly worship on the wrong day of the week.
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Making stuff up does not make your point more clear -- it clouds it.

    There is no money coming into my church from any abortion. No one says "pay Bob's church we just did an abortion out here in some clinic".

    Making stuff up worked in the dark ages - but not in the light of day.

    I don't doubt that somebody some place does an abortion to save the life of the mother - but not many of them. I do think that more abortions take place than God would approve of - because not all of them are to save life. I am against having someone die - either the mother or the baby. But I don't believe in killing the mother to save the Baby.

    BTW thanks for starting this thread and not trying to derail every other topic with one topic.
     
  5. utilyan

    utilyan
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    Wikipedia Adventist health.


    Stance on abortion[edit]
    Since 1973, many Adventist hospitals perform elective abortions under any circumstance.[7] Though some hospitals refrain from performing any abortions, the majority of those that do not perform elective abortions offer "therapeutic" abortions under "extreme circumstances".[8] Since the Seventh-Day Adventist Church does not officially take a strong stance against abortions there is wide variety of opinions on this subject within the church.[9]


    That's just one group there is more

    Adventist Health is a not-for-profit health care organization which operates facilities throughout the western U.S. states of California, Hawaii, Oregon, and Washington. It is run by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.



    The PHRASE it us RUN by the SEVENTH-DAY Adventist church. Actually means if SDA church says Shut it down it gets shut down.


    In comparison if you do a search of catholic hospitals doing abortions. You are gonna see stories of aclu trying to force catholics to do abortions.

    While if you do a search of SDA hospitals doing abortions You are gonna see stories of SDA pastors trying to change the mess.


    Heres a small excerpt by Pastor Tony Brandon, Baker City Seventh-day Adventist Church:


    http://religiousliberty.tv/unsurpas...abortion-adventist-hospitals-transcribed.html
    ====
    Now there are some Seventh-day Adventists who were quite angry at learning that Adventist health system allows elective abortions. Let me read to you a response from one Seventh-day Adventist. It's quite interesting.
    "My wife and I no longer refer to ourselves as Adventists because we were embarrassed to do so. We keep the Sabbath and pray to God that he will help us to continue to grow in grace and knowledge daily. We will not continue to support a church that obsesses more on how bad milk and meat is for you or how much makeup you wear, while completely disregarding the weightier matters of the law."
    I agree 100%. There are, Jesus says there are camel sized issues and there are gnat sized issues. Do you remember what he said to the Pharisees? You strain a net but you are willing to swallow a camel. There are camel sized issues and there are gnat sized issues. Continue,
    ====


    Rob If I was some evil catholic asking you to kill folks that's great grounds to blow me off.

    But I am appealing to your mercy, kindness and compassion to look into this.

    I would be thrilled and happy if you could come out and say its all a unsubstantiated allegation.

    Please prove me a Liar.

    I'm trying to defend your children and you want to kick me down for it
     
  6. utilyan

    utilyan
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    "Though we walk the fence, Adventists lean toward abortion rather than against it. Because we realize we are confronted by big problems of hunger and overpopulation, we do not oppose family planning and appropriate endeavors to control population."-- Neal C. Wilson


    You can ask your own pastor buddy. SDA is Pro-choice.

    The SDA hospitals are RAN by the SDA church and they do abortions.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    In vary many Island nations and in central and south america - a great many catholics mix pagan rituals with the "praying to the dead" ideas of the RCC - but be that as it may - it is not a doctrine of the RCC so we don't bring this up as if the catholics we meet here on this board - are endorsing such a mix.

    This is a concept that "some" on this board have a hard time understanding this idea.

    Neal Wilson is dead - and as an administrator -- not as a theologian - his comment about "leaning" is not in any way a papal statement for the SDA denomination. He comments on some SDA hospitals in a way that many would argue is not at all accurate for the denomination and does not represent all our hospitals. In any case - I am happy to oppose abortions as are pretty much all the SDAs actually meet - day to day.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    1. Rather than the wiki "stance on abortion" might be good to select one from the SDA church website.

    2. I agree with the statement above that a great many SDAs do not endorse abortion.

    3. I also know that the hospital corporation that runs our healthcare system is not actually under control of church - the way most SDAs would wish.

    4. We have no Pope - and in this case we have no SDA church denomination vote/affirmation endorsing abortion. So no wonder we have lots of SDAs opposing abortion while some in control of the healthcare corp take a different view.

    5. HOWEVER - I would love to hear that this is how you too - oppose Purgatory, and changing the Sabbath to Sunday... and the false doctrine of "confecting the body blood soul and divinity of Christ" in the mass -- or that it is how you oppose "belief in" evolutionism. OR that this is how you oppose the ecumenical council of LATERA IV calling for the "extermination" of heretics and bringing about Pope "Innocent" inquisitions.

    you seem to be arguing that my opposition to abortion in the SDA church is like your opposition to the Catholic doctrines I have listed on this board. I find that "odd" - but would welcome it - if this is really what you are claiming.
     
    #8 BobRyan, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  9. utilyan

    utilyan
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    Here's from SDA Guidelines:
    Many contemporary societies have faced conflict over the morality of abortion.* Such conflict also has affected large numbers within Christianity who want to accept responsibility for the protection of prenatal human life while also preserving the personal liberty of women. The need for guidelines has become evident, as the Church attempts to follow scripture, and to provide moral guidance while respecting individual conscience. Seventh-day Adventists want to relate to the question of abortion in ways that reveal faith in God as the Creator and Sustainer of all life and in ways that reflect Christian responsibility and freedom. Though honest differences on the question of abortion exist among Seventh-day Adventists, the following represents an attempt to provide guidelines on a number of principles and issues. The guidelines are based on broad biblical principles that are presented for study at the end of the document.**
    1) Prenatal human life is a magnificent gift of God. God's ideal for human beings affirms the sanctity of human life, in God's image, and requires respect for prenatal life. However, decisions about life must be made in the context of a fallen world. Abortion is never an action of little moral consequence. Thus prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly destroyed. Abortion should be performed only for the most serious reasons.
    2) Abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness. The Church should offer gracious support to those who personally face the decision concerning an abortion. Attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in those who have accepted the gospel. Christians are commissioned to become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as alternatives are considered.
    3) In practical, tangible ways the Church as a supportive community should express its commitment to the value of human life. These ways should include:
    a. strengthening family relationships
    b. educating both genders concerning Christian principles of human sexuality
    c. emphasizing responsibility of both male and female for family planning
    d. calling both to be responsible for the consequences of behaviors that are inconsistent with Christian principles
    e. creating a safe climate for ongoing discussion of the moral questions associated with abortion
    f. offering support and assistance to women who choose to complete crisis pregnancies
    g. encouraging and assisting fathers to participate responsibly in the parenting of their children.
    The Church also should commit itself to assist in alleviating the unfortunate social, economic, and psychological factors that add to abortion and to care redemptively for those suffering the consequences of individual decisions on this issue.
    4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.
    5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom.
    6) Church institutions should be provided with guidelines for developing their own institutional policies in harmony with this statement. Persons having a religious or ethical objection to abortion should not be required to participate in the performance of abortions.
    7) Church members should be encouraged to participate in the ongoing consideration of their moral responsibilities with regard to abortion in light of the teaching of scripture.
    Principles for a Christian View of Life
    Introduction

    "Now this is eternal life; that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent" (John 17:3, NIV). In Christ is the promise of eternal life; but since human life is mortal, humans are confronted with difficult issues regarding life and death. The following principles refer to the whole person (body, soul, and spirit), an indivisible whole (Genesis 2:7; 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
     
  10. utilyan

    utilyan
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    Life: Our valuable gift from God
    1) God is the Source, Giver, and Sustainer of all life (Acts 17:25,28; Job 33:4; Genesis 1:30, 2:7; Psalm 36:9; John 1:3,4).
    2) Human life has unique value because human beings, though fallen, are created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27; Romans 3:23; 1 John 2:2; 1 John 3:2; John 1:29; 1 Peter 1:18,19).
    3) God values human life not on the basis of human accomplishments or contributions but because we are God's creation and the object of His redeeming love (Romans 5:6,8; Ephesians 2:2-6; 1 Timothy 1:15; Titus 3:4,5; Matthew 5:43-48; Ephesians 2:4-9; John 1:3, 10:10).

    Life: Our response to God's gift

    4) Valuable as it is, human life is not the only or ultimate concern. Self-sacrifice in devotion to God and His principles may take precedence over life itself (Revelation 12:11; 1 Corinthians 13).
    5) God calls for the protection of human life and holds humanity accountable for its destruction (Exodus 20:13; Revelation 21:8; Exodus 23:7; Deuteronomy 24:16; Proverbs 6:16,17; Jeremiah 7:3-34; Micah 6:7; Genesis 9:5,6).
    6) God is especially concerned for the protection of the weak, the defenseless, and the oppressed (Psalm 82:3,4; James 1:27; Micah 6:8; Acts 20:35; Proverbs 24:11,12; Luke 1:52-54).
    7) Christian love (agape) is the costly dedication of our lives to enhancing the lives of others. Love also respects personal dignity and does not condone the oppression of one person to support the abusive behavior of another (Matthew 16:21; Philippians 2:1-11; 1 John 3:16; 1 John 4:8-11; Matthew 22:39; John 18:22,23; John 13:34).
    8) The believing community is called to demonstrate Christian love in tangible, practical, and substantive ways. God calls us to restore gently the broken (Galatians 6:1,2; 1 John 3:17,18; Matthew 1:23; Philippians 2:1-11; John 8:2-11; Romans 8:1-14; Matthew 7:1,2, 12:20; Isaiah 40:42, 62:2-4).

    Life: Our right and responsibility to decide
    9) God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to abuse and tragic consequences. His unwillingness to coerce human obedience necessitated the sacrifice of His Son. He requires us to use His gifts in accordance with His will and ultimately will judge their misuse (Deuteronomy 30:19,20; Genesis 3; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 3:5,6, 6:1,2; Galatians 5:13).
    10) God calls each of us individually to moral decision making and to search the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such choices (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).
    11) Decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).
    12) Human decisions should always be centered in seeking the will of God (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 6:6; Luke 22:42).
    *Abortion, as understood in these guidelines, is defined as any action aimed at the termination of a pregnancy already established. This is distinguished from contraception, which is intended to prevent a pregnancy. The focus of the document is on abortion.
    **The fundamental perspective of these guidelines is taken from a broad study of scripture as shown in the "Principles for a Christian View of Human Life" included at the end of this document.
    These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.
    ======
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan
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    "9) God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to abuse and tragic consequences."
    When I want to murder unborn, God gives me the freedom of choice, you don't say a word.

    When I want to worship on Sunday, you bug us about it over and over.
    "4) Valuable as it is, human life is not the only or ultimate concern. Self-sacrifice in devotion to God and His principles may take precedence over life itself"
    ^THE LIFE OF OTHERS!?!?! You got bigger fish to fry then your own hospitals MURDERING CHILDREN.
    I Tell Jesus I LOVE you on the wrong day of the week is more important the KILLING.
    " The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation."
    Its not human life anymore its a "pregnancy".
    "5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom."
    Again your Sabbath whining is a infringement on our personal freedom.^ More double standard.
    Thou shalt not Kill is a commandment of God.
    I'd get off your back with one simple sentence put into the guidelines. ABORTION is MURDER.
    Call a vote for that one.
    Bob, The Catholic Church, teaches don't steal. But there is no doubt we have millions of thieves.
    The church teaching still however stands correct, Do not steal.
    The SDA, I bet there maybe ZERO abortions among Devout SDA members.
    The SDA Church teaching however is ABORTION is PERMITTED.
    In fact If one decided to get an abortion for kicks "any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom."
    READ CLOSELY: "The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals;"
    You bug us about Sabbath all the time.^
    But when it comes to THOU SHALT NOT KILL "The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals;"
    Would you want Catholics to have the same rules about abortion the SDA church has?
    Following Jesus means doing what is right, not what is easy.
    And when they try to shut you down blow that whistle harder.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    I myself would approve of abortion to save the life of the mother - every day and twice on Sunday. However I cannot claim my own view as the statement of the entire world church of SDAs.

    Having said that I would not approve of abortion in the other cases were it is done for preference or convenience or gender selection or a vast array of other reasons.

    I don't recall any voted approval of abortion by the actual world church of SDAs voting in session to approve it.
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan
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    "If God abhors one sin above another, of which His people are guilty, it is doing nothing in case of an emergency. Indifference and neutrality in a religious crisis is regarded of God as a grievous crime and equal to the very worst type of hostility against God." -Ellen G. White.

    Its not the people doing abortions who in trouble brother, Its you letting them.

    Do you know what SDA should mean to you?
    (S)TOP
    (D)OING
    (A)BORTIONS



    You would approve killing an innocent person to save the life of the "mother".

    Call it like you see it, don't hide it. The commandment is not thou shalt not murder, it is Thou shalt not KILL.

    Bob I can hardly get you to call abortion murder. Your church doesn't call it that at all.




    I'm showing you a link to official SDA trademark. SDA trademarked like a company all things "seventh-day Adventist".

    https://www.adventist.org/en/copyright/trademark-and-logo-usage/


    Seventh day Adventist hospitals are still murdering children.

    They have power over the name.

    When you tithe....YOU ARE PAYING FOR ABORTIONS.




    Bob,

    There are people starting to wake up within the SDA that realize the wrong. The system was designed to keep you out of the know. It was designed for you to keep a blind eye on the MURDER of children.

    Here is a video of a SDA PASTOR and I'm proud that soon I won't have to say there are ZERO anti-abortion SDA groups.

    BOB ask your pastor whats the deal with abortion. They try to blow you off because it doesn't want to discourage both side. It wants to play the fence because there is more money in it if you can keep both sides happy.

    Its about money, Believe me I'm catholic......Master of Evil......Look where the money goes. There can be only one top dog in the evil department, so we going to need you guys to cut the abortions.


    Here is a video of a SDA pastor against abortion and he knows SDA HOSPITALS are doing it.

     

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