Sea the question?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. preacher

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    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    Any ideas on why no sea on the new earth? I know in this world that it is part of the self-cleansing order that God set up. (I assume after the fall). That won't be needed. But the sea was in the beginning of this earth, why not the new?
     
  2. blackbird

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    Some see the "sea" here as symbolic of seperation. There will be no more seperation of believers from believers. Kinda sorta the idea that the Oceans seperate the Continents----in the Glory that awaits there will be people from every tribe, every tongue, every nation under the sky "as one" with the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  3. preacher

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    OK but why would "symbolic" be put in with the literal. The new heavens & new earth are literal, are they not?
     
  4. Artimaeus

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    IMHO, it seems that water is so very essential to our ecosystem and to our physical existence (we are mostly made up of water) but in eternity we are no longer dependent upon water for the sustaining of our lives. Plus, think of how much more land we will have for living, exploring, beauty, etc..
     
  5. StraightAndNarrow

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    Many Christians, including me, consider the whole of the endtimes description in Rev to be symbolic.
     
  6. StraightAndNarrow

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    I have never thought about that interpretation before. I think it makes a lot of sense.
     
  7. exscentric

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    Something I've chewed on from time to time - usually not much on symbolism:

    Rev. 4.6 "And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind"

    I Kings 7.38 "Then made he ten lavers of brass: one laver contained forty baths: [and] every laver was four cubits: [and] upon every one of the ten bases one laver . 39 And he put five bases on the right side of the house, and five on the left side of the house: and he set the sea on the right side of the house eastward over against the south." (also II Kings 16.17)

    Note, one laver is called "sea."

    Ex. 30.18-20 " Thou shalt also make a laver [of] brass, and his foot [also of] brass, to wash [withal]: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein. 19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat: 20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD"

    Since the heavenly tabernacle was the pattern for the earthly, and since the throne scenes of Ezek. and Rev. resemble the tabernacle and since the laver was for cleansing. "IF" the sea of Rev. is the heavenly laver of the heavenly tabernacle, and "IF" the sea (oceans) are somehow symbolic (of cleansing), then there is no need fer it up there [​IMG]

    Yust some thots. Now returning to a less painful state. [​IMG]
     
  8. Helen

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    I think exscentric has some good thoughts.

    And there is something else that might be involved. Many times in the Bible the sea is seen as a source of danger. In Job, they must keep watch on it. In Isaiah "the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud." In Isaiah 31:35, it is the Lord "who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar."

    In Jeremiah 49:23, the cities of Hamath and Arpad "are dismayed, for they have heard bad news. They are disheartened, troubled like the restless sea."

    The Leviathan, used as a symbol for evil, is from the sea. The beast of Revelation arises from the sea. When we are baptized in water, we are baptized into the death of Christ.

    The Bible makes a strong point about a water of life, but there is also a water of death, and that is pictured as the sea. Noah was saved through the flood when the waters of the sea rose to cover the whole earth, killing everything. Jonah was thrown into the sea to kill him. In Jeremiah 51:42, "The sea will rise over Babylon; its roaring waves will cover her."

    In Ezekiel we read of the Lord's judgment on Tyre (26:19-20) -- "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: When I make you a desolate city, like cities no longer inhabited, and when I bring the ocean depths over you and its vast waters cover you, then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you will not return or take your place in the land of the living."

    In Daniel 7:2 we read of the beginning of one of Daniel's visions: ""In my vision at night looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea."

    The Disciples felt in deadly danger on the Sea of Galilee when the storm sprang up.

    There is a running theme of the sea presenting danger and death. The fact that the beasts of Daniel as well as of Revelation also come from the sea may indicate the sea is a symbol of the mass of unsaved humanity as well. That one is perhaps a little more arguable, but the sea itself, as a physical entity, is a source of monsters, storms, danger, death as well as what the Lord uses for judgment.

    At the least, all of this is erased in the new creation.

    We know there is a river coming from the Throne in the new creation, and where it empties, I don't know! But, then, they physics of then will not be the physics of now, so I am content to wait.
     
  9. preacher

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    So no literal new Jerusalem coming down out of the heavens?
    Also the sea was the FIRST place God created living creatures, whales.
     
  10. greek geek

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    In the ANE there was believed to be a sea god named Yam (which is also the Hebrew word for sea). He was the Ugaritic sea god. There is also a sea monster, associated with the mythology of Yam. The two often depict chaos. There are many instances where God, is seen as subduing the sea and sea monster, subduing chaos, and hence showing superiority to the Ugaritic god Yam (as also happens with the other ANE gods).

    Genesis 1.2 presents the picture of God having already subduing the sea; and there are many other instances where this happens (Isa 51.9-10, Job 9.8, 26.12). Not only is it shown as something that God has done but as something that will happen in the future. In Isaiah 27.1 ruling over the sea and the sea monster is a future event which Revelations 21.1 is a reference to. My understanding of “no more sea” is that God has subdued chaos once and for all.
     
  11. blackbird

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    I can understand your thought---and often ask myself when thinking on the subject of "no more sea" the idea--

    Why would a sea be needed in the New Heaven & Earth??

    I heard J. Vernon say that no more sea would allow "plenty of room" for us to "spread out"
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Simple answer. EVERYTHING in the Biblical world revolved around "the sea" - the Mediterranean world.

    John is not speaking in allegory or mysticism. On a new earth there will be no more Mediterranean Sea! No mountains either.

    HEY - HOW CAN IT BE HEAVEN WITHOUT MOUNTAINS AND OCEAN?? [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. Gina B

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    I was just reading a book on Revelation and was going to look up what it said on this, but seem to have misplaced it. (which is odd, because I only have one place for books) I'll look for it in a bit and share what it says. In the meantime I'll give my personal opinion, a concept I'm sure everyone on here has grown to know and love. Deeply. :rolleyes:

    I think it just means the sea as in deep oceans. There weren't oceans dividing countries when the world was first created. There were deep waters, but not in place to separate the nations and certainly not to the extent that they existed after the earthquakes and floods caused the oceans and mountains we have today. It was those that cause the oceans, wasn't it? The land falling in places, rising in others.
    When our world is restored, we'll simply return to how it was. One land, and mist rising from the ground instead of falling from the sky. No sunburns, the vapor layer will be restored. No more hair spray, in cans or on video. yay.
     
  14. exscentric

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    "So no literal new Jerusalem coming down out of the heavens?"

    Not at all, in my mind!
     
  15. Helen

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    Dr Bob, the sea is mentioned long before the Mediterranean existed -- see Genesis 1:10. How can it be heaven without mountains or oceans? It will be heaven because of being with Christ.

    Gina, you are referring, I think to the Millennium, not the NEW heaven and earth. There are indications in Isaiah especially that the restored earth is what we will see when the Messiah reigns on earth, but after that there will be a destruction of all the elements and a new heaven and new earth will be created. We really have no idea of what that will be like.
     
  16. Helen

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    Imaginary things are not usually given dimensions!
     
  17. Gina B

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    I've never looked into it much, but did come across someone once who thought that the new Jerusalem was us, that we are the treasure of God, refined jewels, that make up the precious stones that are the walls, and each of us according to our works on earth. That we will descend as a whole to inhabit the recreated earth. Again, I never thought about it, but found it an interesting thought. I always thought it meant a literal city, that this was the place being prepared for us.

    Earlier, you mentioned no need of the "sea" in the heavenly tabernacle. What are you talking about? Is there a need for it "up there" now? Why would it stay there? Our eternal home isn't in heaven, it's here on a recreated earth.
     
  18. Helen

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    Our final abode will most certainly be heaven as far as the Bible is concerned!

    In the OT, there are three 'heavens', the third being God's Throne.

    In Revelation 22, we see the Throne of God in the City of Jerusalem.

    In Revelation 21 we read, "And I heard a loud voice from teh throne saying, 'Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.'"
     
  19. exscentric

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    "Earlier, you mentioned no need of the "sea" in the heavenly tabernacle. What are you talking about? Is there a need for it "up there" now? Why would it stay there? Our eternal home isn't in heaven, it's here on a recreated earth."

    No, there is no need for it up there, the statement was in the context of the heavenly throne of God/heavenly tabernacle.

    I would suspect we will be existing in the New Jerusalem whether it is in the air, or on the new earth.
     
  20. Gina B

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    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    This again throws me back to the days before the fall (I accidentally typed wall, but that works too!) when there was communion with God, and He walked on the earth and spoke with Adam and Eve.

    Why would Jerusalem ascend down if it's supposed to be the place of God's throne, when the throne is in the highest heaven, if this indeed is referring to heaven?
     

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