Sealed Forever

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TCGreek, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. Once the Holy Spirit has taken up residence in a believer, that believer is sealed forever. The believer may fall into sin and even grieve the Spirit, but he is still sealed. He may even "quench the Spirit," but he is still sealed.

    2. This seals shows both ownership and security--we who belong to God are His forever (see Eph 1:13, 13; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21, 22; 1 Thess 5:19).
     
  2. Lou Martuneac

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    Agreed!


    LM
     
  3. Allan

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    What he said :)
     
  4. Jkdbuck76

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    "Quench the Spirit"?

    What does that mean?

    1) He's still inside you, but He ain't talking?
    2) He left?
    3) Or "other"?

    I need some help here. I mean, when you quench a fire, it is put out.
    To quench the Spirit.....can we kick Him out?

    Thoughts please.....
     
  5. dcorbett

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    nope, can't kick him out....once saved, he comes to dwell within, and you can stop listening, but he is always there.
     
  6. webdog

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    Agreed! Circumcision can't be undone! (Rom. 2)
     
  7. SBCPreacher

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    I'll vote for this!
     
  8. MaryKay

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    Praise God ! I agree
     
  9. TCGreek

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    1. Some commentators tend to see the imperative not to put out the Spirit's fire as referring to the exercise as the gifts the Spirit has given to the believer (1 Cor 12).

    2. I tend to agree with this position. Notice, it is the believer who is told not to put out the Spirit fire.

    3. Furthermore, the metaphor of fire is not the same as that of "seal" and "down payment."

    a. In NT times a seal was put on a document to identify and protect it.

    b. A "down payment" was prove that what is promised would be delivered.
     
  10. skypair

    skypair
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    Amen, TC!! You're finally understand the "Grace train!"

    I been building a 500' long privacy fence here at the homestead and haven't had a chance to post my thoughts on Rom 5:1-2 but you're absolutely right on this!

    skypair
     
  11. skypair

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    Dare I mention? Dr. Rogers did a great sermon on this. "Quenching" is when you don't do what you ought. "Grieving" is when you do what you oughtn't. Either way, you're "outta touch" with your "inner Jesus."

    You are to be the "glory of Christ" to this world. You just cannot be that if you are constantly "quenching" and "grieving."

    skypair
     
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Skypair,

    When you and I are on the same side of the fence, I think that's really good for all. :laugh:
     
  13. Allan

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    I always get nervous :laugh:
     
  14. jne1611

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    I'll have to second that!:godisgood: :smilewinkgrin:
     
  15. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Allan,

    Good one! :laugh:
     
  16. skypair

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    It is quite possible for both of us to be on the same side of the fence but begin to argue about what we know. It's called "vanity" and God subjected us all to it in hope. And it is in a strange hope at that -- God hopes that we fail and will find Him to supply our every need!

    Right now I see Calvinism having many critical questions regarding the very basics of salvation, of sovereignty, sin nature, the spiritual makeup of man, of where evil came from, etc. Yet they outspokenly continue as if no problems exist. That, my friend, is vanity, pure and simple.

    We need to address those issues head on beginning with "Why really does God choose whom He chooses to salvation" because choosing and saving everyone would be His even greater glory? And it doesn't "please" Him to condemn most people either.

    To me, we are left with Rom 8:29 -- He chooses whom He foreknows will believe. But Calvinism and "vanity" will not allow you to make that determination in your own spirit, will it?

    Do you remember when Jesus said, "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you would say unto that mountain, 'Be ye removed hence' and it would be cast into the sea?" He was talking about Calvinism, TC. When you realize that mountain is totally unnecessary because of its defects (like the Reformers realized that Catholicism was unnecessary), you can dismiss the whole thing and start studying your Bible with the wisdom of the Spirit again.

    Another one is "Why does one believe and another not?" Calvinism is merely human speculation on this issue because any human ability is disallowed. Yet when a Calvinist hears a presidential debate, it is likely he will hear and see both sides for what they truly are.

    The salvation "debate" rages daily in America. All will hear sometime and all may choose one side or the other. But the "saving" side also requires commitment -- repentance from self to God. That is clear in the gospel message and, no matter whether you call it "work" or not (Rom 4:5), it does separate those who believe from those who don't.

    Calvinists have answers -- even scriptures -- that appear to explain these issues. But they actually deny God's character. So let's keep finding things we agree on until those things lead to the whole truth.

    skypair
     
  17. skypair

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    1. That being said (my previous post), when do the "elect" become sealed?

    2. Were the OT saints sealed?

    3. How about the disciples during Christ's life?

    4. What is required for one to be sealed?

    skypair
     
  18. jne1611

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    Sky,
    I am not speaking for the Calvinist here, and I know that the question & issues have been raised to someone else, but, your first question:
    "Why really does God choose whom He chooses to salvation" & then the second part: "because choosing and saving everyone would be His even greater glory?"

    Do you not realize that in your own system, the same problematic questions can be raised?
    For example, it could be asked of you, "If God, really loves everyone on the face of the earth, past, present, & future, then why did he allow Satan to fall? To become the great deceiver? Why hell?
    If your view of foreknowledge is correct, that God chose those who He knew would believe before the foundation of the world, then in that view, He also created hell KNOWING who would be there as well. In light of that, it could be asked, Would it not be more loving to have not allowed their existence at all, than to let them be born, Him having known that they would be cast into the hell He created?

    The first part of the question you raised can be debated from Scripture, the second part, that is, what would be more to His glory, is not up to us to determine, but to God, for it is certain that all of the things I mentioned are in Scripture, that is, Satan, Hell, Sinners being cast there & the most of humanity at that. We could say, Well, if God had just saved the whole world, that would be more to His glory. Apparently not, because the whole world will not be saved & God will still receive maxim glory.

    I have to go, so, you think on these things & when I talk to you again, we can discuss them. Lord Willing!:godisgood:
     
    #18 jne1611, Jan 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2008
  19. TCGreek

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    Skypair,

    1. Whether Calvinist or not, most believers believe in this sealing of the Spirit for eternity.

    2. As we both know, the ministry of the Spirit in OT times was different than that of NT times.

    3. The idea of the Spirit being a seal and down payment I do not see in the OT--maybe I overlooked it all--at any rate, God knew how to keep His own--I find it instructive that Paul quotes from the OT to substantiate his claim that God knows those who are His (2 Tim 2:19; Num 16:5).

    4. The Holy Spirit in the life of the believer is what is required to be sealed, and the Holy Spirit is given when a person believes (Eph 1:13: "In Him when you believed--were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit," HCSB).

    5. You don't have to be a Calvinist to see and accept this NT truth. :thumbs:
     
  20. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
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    It is good to know that we will be fresh when we get to heaven...:laugh:
     

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