Search the Scriptures...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Peggy, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. Peggy

    Peggy
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    I have heard this phrase used so many times as endorsement of reading and searching the Scriptures for they teach what Jesus taught and teach about Jesus. That is true, of course.

    But when I was reading the Gospel of John straight through - not skipping around to favorite chapters and verses - I realized that Jesus was speaking satirically to "the Jews" who did not believe in Him.

    Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
    Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
    Joh 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
    Joh 5:42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.

    Here they are searching the Scriptures for some sign of the Messiah yet to come, yet they did not recognized Him as he stood right in front of their eyes!

    What I ask myself is this, will I refuse to help someone, pray with someone, or co-operate with someone simply because they don't conform to my ideas or convictions about correct doctrine or what the Bible says about the Messiah?

    Or will I see the face of Christ in others who are standing right in front of me and love them as He commands?

    It's a lifelong challenge for the believer to love as Christ loves, and something I fail at regularly. But there is still that goal and that command to love.
     
    #1 Peggy, Dec 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2009
  2. Revmitchell

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    You tried to make some false correlation between the Jews rejection of Christ and those who will not stand beside someone with incorrect doctrine.

    In order to accomplish this you use vague and ambiguous language giving no specifics. You either lack clarity on your own issue or you have intentionally tried to frame the discussion in a dishonest way in order to obtain the outcome you already desire.

    What do you mean by help someone?

    In what way do you mean pray with someone?

    In what way do you mean cooperate with someone?


    You also frame this in such a way that sets everyone's views as equal. This is just simply false. They are not all equal and the church is, as directed by Paul, to make judgments on those doctrines and behaviors that are contrary to the Word of God.

    Now the three questions I have asked are important to your subject because helping an individual can occur in different contexts. We may help in one context and not another for differing reasons. As is true with prayer and cooperation. I would help someone who was hungry by obtaining food but I would never give a starving drunk any amount of cash to do it.

    I would pray with someone who was hurting or in need but I would never pray in a situation that would give credence to a false religion or seriously false doctrine.

    And I will cooperate with anyone against abortion until signing that document gives equality to false doctrine.

    You have to ignore Paul's admonition to the church on several occasions to hold your position.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Dec 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2009
  3. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    Hello Peggy

    You First referred to this passage.....
    John 5:39-42
    V.39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
    V.40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
    V.41 I receive not honour from men.
    V.42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.


    And then you concluded, that the reason they didn’t see the Lord in their studies, was because they didn’t “love” their fellow man as they should have.

    They did indeed have this problem, but a little further down in this chapter, we find out why they didn’t see the Lord.....
    John 5:45-47
    V.45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust.
    V.46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
    V.47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


    It was simply their unbelief.

    Their lack of love was a result of their unbelief, not the other way around.
    --------------------------------------------------
    You also said......
    Many of the things you list here are of great importance.
    And you suggest helping or co-operating with people who don’t agree with you about....
    “...what the Bible says about the Messiah”

    This is a very serious issue.........
    2 John 1:7-11
    V.7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
    V.8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
    V.9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    V.10 ¶ If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
    V.11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


    As much as we love and care about every lost person on the planet; We must be careful when it comes to “helping or co-operating”, with them.

    I will help an unsaved man, having car trouble on the side of the road, to get to his destination;
    But I will not help a Mormon missionary, on his way to his mission field, who may be having the exact same trouble.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Most of the time, those folks who don't conform to our ideas or convictions about correct doctrine or what the Bible says about the Messiah, should not be helped.
     
  4. Peggy

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    The Jews elevated the Scriptures above the Messiah.

    That's why they didn't recognized Jesus when he was standing in front of them.

    The Jews did not lack belief. They believed in the wrong thing. They believed that their knowledge of Scripture would save them.

    I think lots of people fall into this category. They worship the Scriptures and correct doctrine rather than the person of Jesus Christ. This worship of correct doctrine leads them to pride, self righteousness, and self-satifaction, a quickness to condemn others, and a failure to love as Jesus loved.

    The worship of Scriptures leads such nutty things to the KJVO position and an obsession over the "correct" translation of Scripture.

    Jesus commands us to love God and love our neighbor. We are to worship the living Word, Jesus Christ.
     
  5. Aaron

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    They didn't recognize Jesus because God blinded them, not because the Scriptures are in any way ambiguous about Christ and who He was, is and is to be.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Incorrect, they believed their lineage in Abraham and being a Jew would save them. This was made clear in John 8:33. They did not elevate scripture above the Messiah they thought they were secure based on the promise made to Abraham. But of course there is always Paul to ignore.

    Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
     
    #6 Revmitchell, Dec 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2009
  7. Peggy

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    They didn't recogonize Him because He didn't fit their idea of who the Messiah was, even though they diligently searched the Scriptures. Their hearts were far from him.

    I'm not saying that sound doctrine is wrong. Obviously it is very important to have sound doctrine on which to build a church. But we aren't supposed to stay in the church like we are living in a fortress. We are to get out of the church and love others as Christ has loved us. We are to be doers of the word, not hearers only.

    Jas 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
    We will be judged on how we served our fellow men, out of love for Jesus.

    Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
    Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
    Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
    Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
    Mat 25:38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
    Mat 25:39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
    Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'
     
  8. donnA

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    you prefer incorrect doctrine? do you think false doctrines are ok with God, as in, well, He gives us HIS word in scripture and says here do what you want with this?
    I seem to remember Jesus saying to someone, it wasn't flesh and blood that revealed who He was to them, but God. If they didn't see who Jesus was it's because God did not reveal it to them.
    But then you don't care about correct doctrines do you, any old false thing will do.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    They did not recognize Him because their hearts were evil.

    Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


    We are to glorify God. Men in need are not to be the focus but serving them so as to glorify God.


    Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
    Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
    Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.



    Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


    Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
    Rom 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
    Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    God doesn't save men for the sake of saving men. God saves men so that He would be glorified.


    Rom 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
     
  10. stilllearning

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    Hello donnA

    You said......
    You remembered correctly......
    Matthew 16:13-18
    V.13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
    V.14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
    V.15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
    V.16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    V.17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    V.18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
     
  11. Jon-Marc

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    if I can see the love of God in a person (despite his church affiliation), then he is my brother or sister in Christ. I can fellowship with him/her despite differences in beliefs as long as those differences aren't too different. The most godly and Spirit-filled people I've met have been Pentacostals. However, I don't believe we need to speak in tongues.
     
  12. donnA

    donnA
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    THANK YOU, lots to do and no time to get it all done this week, so didn't stop to look it up exactly. Thanks for the help.
     
  13. Johnv

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    Jesus was indeed engagin in satire here. He was chastizing the people having their noses so buried in scripture that they could see what was in front of their nose. They were so busy looking for the signs of God they they were oblivious to the sign of the times.
     

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