Secular songs at a Christian concert

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by musicworx, Jun 15, 2003.

  1. musicworx

    musicworx
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    Hi everyone. I'm a newbie at this forum.

    My organization, Musicworx is currently conducting a series of mall concerts in the Philippines as part of our promotional campaign.

    We hope to utilize music to reach out to unbelievers and share the Word of God.

    The malls were a difficult place to secure permission to perform and we had to agree that we would not put on a show with preaching and Christian songs.

    So what we did was mixed "safe" secular songs, classical music, and popular Christian songs. We hope that though this is a bit of a compromise, through these concerts we can gain acceptance as a group to enable us to sing about God's love more freely.

    Would love to hear what you guys can says about this?

    You can find more about our organizationa nd the "Faithful Mall Tour" at www.musicworx.org.

    Cheers to you all!
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    No problem here!

    May God bless your work!
     
  3. DanielFive

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    Musicworx,

    I would hate to discourage you, so I will rather encourage you to do what you know to be right. It worries me that you use the term compromise, are you comfortable with this?

    The Lord will go before you if you choose the right path but the right path is not always the easiest to take.

    God Bless you

    Enda
     
  4. ScottEmerson

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    I went on a mission trip to Germany several years ago with about 20 other people. We led a music-camp there with the high school students. We had a large number of students who were saved. Many of them continue to serve at the local church in Germany. We performed our numbers at the church for the city. (Weimar, if anyone has heard of it).

    Ironically, the songs that we performed and taught the kids were mostly secular songs. For example, the girls sang and danced to the song, "You Don't Own Me," and the guys' number was the Backstreet Boys, "I Want It That Way." The community came out in droves!

    Did we compromise? Absolutely not! The gospel was proclaimed to a lost and dying community. Would they have come to learn Christian songs in which they knew nothing about? A few might have, most would not. Was God glorified, even through secular songs? Yes, I think He was. I don't think He was offended, because the Spirit showed up in force!

    Keep the faith, man! It's not about compromise - it is about finding a way for others to listen to the message. It sounds like what you are doing will open up big doors for your ministry - just remember that it is not about you, it is about Jesus Christ!
     
  5. Travelsong

    Travelsong
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    You mean this song?


    You Don't Own Me
    (Madara-White)

    You don't own me
    I'm not just one of your many toys
    You don't own me
    Don't say I can't go with other boys

    Don't tell me what to do
    Don't tell me what to say
    An' please, when I go out with you
    Don't put me on display

    You don't own me
    Don't try to change me in anyway
    You don't own me
    Don't tie me down 'cause I'll never stay

    I don't tell you what to say
    I don't tell you what to do
    So just let me be myself
    That's all I ask of you

    I'm young and I love to be young
    I'm free and I love to be free
    To live my life the way I want
    To say and do whatever I please
     
  6. ScottEmerson

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    Yeah, we did that one, but we only used the first two sets of lyrics that repeated.
     
  7. DanielFive

    DanielFive
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    What a wholesome Christian message. I'd hate to see you compromising.
     
  8. DanielFive

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    Backstreet Boys : I Want it That Way

    Cause you are, my fire,
    The one, desire,
    Believe, when I say,
    I want it that way

    But we, are two worlds apart,
    Can't reach to your heart,
    When you say,
    That, I want it that way

    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    I want it that way

    Am I, your fire,
    Your one, desire,
    Yes I know, it's too late,
    But I want it that way

    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    I want it that way

    Now I can see that we're falling apart,
    >From the way that it used to be, Yeah,
    No matter the distance,
    I want you to know,
    That deep down inside of me...

    You are, my fire,
    The one, desire,
    You are
    You are,
    You are,
    You are...

    Don't wanna hear you say,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    (Don't wanna hear you say),
    I never wanna hear you say,
    I want it that way

    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    (Don't wanna hear you say),
    I want it that way

    Tell me why...
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    (Don't wanna hear you say it),
    I want it that way
    I want it that way


    I Want It That Way (radio version)

    I'm yours, completely,
    I feel so deeply,
    Your my first thought everyday,
    And I want it that way

    My life is for you,
    And I, adore you,
    I love you more, everyday,
    And I want it that way

    Your goodbyes,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    No more lies,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    That is why,
    I love it when I hear you say,
    I want it that way

    My heart, is on fire,
    Such a strong, desire,
    Yes I know, it's too late,
    But I want it that way

    No goodbyes,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    No more lies,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    That is why,
    I love it when I hear you say,
    I want it that way

    I gave you my heart,
    Baby right from the start,
    And that's the way it will always be, yeah
    No matter the distance,
    I want you to know,
    That deep down inside of me...

    You are, my fire,
    The one, desire,
    You are,
    You are,
    You are,
    You are...

    Don't wanna hear you say,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    I want to hear you say,
    I love it when I hear you say,
    You want it that way

    Your goodbyes,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    No more lies,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    That is why,
    I love it when I hear you say,
    (I wanna hear you say)
    I want it that way

    Your goodbyes,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    That is why,
    I love it when I hear you say,
    (Love it when you say)
    I want it that way
    Girl, I want it that way

    Performing this song alongside Christian music is IMO sewing seeds of confusion among the young.

    Weimar....'the whole city was filled with confusion.'

    1Co14:33 For God is not the author of confusion.

    Scott, please think about what you are doing.

    God Bless

    Enda
     
  9. ScottEmerson

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    I'd never heard the radio version - that's not the one we did.

    Somehow there wasn't confusion among the students, believe it or not. They understoof that Christianity isn't merely for the priests or the people who live in monestaries. Jesus was alive and well and wanted to know them.

    Not so much. In fact, the confusion was about what Christianity was all about. We helped them with that... or should I say that God helped them with that.

    This is true. There just wasn't any confusion.

    We did. God showing up is evidence enough for me that you are incorrect in your opinion on what we did. When it all boils down to it, God used the Backstreet Boys as a tool to spread the gospel! That may sound offensive to some people, but God didn't seem to mind, as His spirit moved in the hearts of these high schoolers from Germany.
     
  10. DanielFive

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    I'm not sure how you know that 'God showed up' was there a real sense of reverence about the place?

    So you witnessed people coming under real conviction of sin and seen them repenting of this sin. That's what happens when the Spirit of God moves in people's hearts.

    God Bless

    Enda
     
  11. musicworx

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    I use the word compromise to mean that our repertoire was not all Christian songs, but we chose the songs with messages that do not conflict with what we beleive in.

    In our concerts we introduce ourselves as a Christian Music Organization and make clear the objectives of our group. We
     
  12. ScottEmerson

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    Absolutely. Young people who were exposed to the gospel for the first time got saved. Many of them continue to attend and serve the Baptist church there, so their decisions appear to me to be authentic, life-changing ones.

    Which is what we witnessed. As much as you'd like to, you can't argue the results of what happened when we used secular music as a gateway to the gospel message.
     
  13. DanielFive

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    Don't get me wrong Scott, I'm not arguing, we all know God can speak to people through many different circumstances.

    Lets be clear, if He used secular music it's not because this is His method of choice. Primarily God uses the Word to speak to people, it saddens me that you seem to be suggesting there is a better way.

    Praise God, He can also use us in spite of our unwillingness to obey His commands.

    God Bless You

    Enda
     
  14. ScottEmerson

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    And His Word is what we used to proclaim the truth. You seem to be saying that you are the expert on God's method of choice. You need Scriptural support to make that statement, and you have not supplied one.

    Why make such comments when you cannot back them up with Scripture? What if God led us to format the camp in this way (we believe he did)? What makes you the judge of what God chooses to use and what God prefers to use?

    Honest questions, but perhaps too rhetorical for a clear answer.
     
  15. DanielFive

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    Scott,

    Something I notice from a lot of your posts is the emphasis you place on numbers. An example would be your obvious delight in the fact that "the community came out in droves" which you state in your post above.

    Question , Was it the Spirit of God that drew this large crowd to the meeting?

    Answer, no, it was their apparent love of secular music which is what you were only to willing to provide.

    I'll say it again, this is evangelism by false pretences.

    You bring the crowd in by dangling the 'Backstreet Boys' carrot at them, then you foist the Gospel on them while they are there.

    It is of no importance wheather or not they would have come to learn Christian songs. What is important is that genuine conversions occured. You would have served more purpose if you had preached the Gospel to five people and witnessed them coming to Christ through the Holy Spirit using the word to convict them than you would by witnessing 20 people being converted through a love of secular music.

    Finally you asked the question 'Was God glorified even through secular songs? You answer Yes.

    I say absolutely not.

    By your own admission you sang, and I quote..

    You don't own me
    I'm not just one of your many toys
    You don't own me
    Don't say I can't go with other boys

    Don't tell me what to do
    Don't tell me what to say
    An' please, when I go out with you
    Don't put me on display

    I can't see anything in this so far that in any way Glorifies God, in fact it promotes promiscuity.

    You went on to sing...

    Cause you are, my fire,
    The one, desire,
    Believe, when I say,
    I want it that way

    But we, are two worlds apart,
    Can't reach to your heart,
    When you say,
    That, I want it that way

    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    I want it that way

    Am I, your fire,
    Your one, desire,
    Yes I know, it's too late,
    But I want it that way

    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    I want it that way

    Now I can see that we're falling apart,
    >From the way that it used to be, Yeah,
    No matter the distance,
    I want you to know,
    That deep down inside of me...

    You are, my fire,
    The one, desire,
    You are
    You are,
    You are,
    You are...

    Don't wanna hear you say,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    (Don't wanna hear you say),
    I never wanna hear you say,
    I want it that way

    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Tell me why,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    (Don't wanna hear you say),
    I want it that way

    Tell me why...
    Ain't nothin' but a heartache,
    Ain't nothin' but a mistake,
    Tell me why,
    I never wanna hear you say,
    (Don't wanna hear you say it),
    I want it that way
    I want it that way

    Does that glorify God? How? This is a song from a man/boy to a women/girl in which he tells her "you are my fire, my one desire". No room for God there then.

    Now why can't you see that you are sewing confusion?

    The case against you is so clear here that I must arrive at the conclusion that in fact you know that your methods are ungodly but your obstinance means you can't admit it.

    It is striking how similar many CCM songs are to this Backstreet Boys number. That says it all.


    God Bless You

    Enda
     
  16. DanielFive

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    [​IMG] Read the four Gospels, and then read the Acts of the Apostles.

    If you can find your methods in there I will be quite willing to agree with them.

    God Bless

    Enda
     
  17. ScottEmerson

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    And why should I not be pleased when the Spirit moves? Do we not read in Acts how 3000 people got saved after Peter's sermon? Do we not get excited when Luke writes, "And God added daily to their number those who were being saved?"

    Yes.

    And they wouldn't have been exposed to the gospel message otherwise. As sinners, they are not able to understand things of the spirit.

    Of course not. How many of the people came to Jesus for a healing miracle, and instead got a spiritual one? Many, many of them! What attracted Zaccheus to Jesus? People do not seek to be saved. Period. They are way too depraved for that.

    To which the Spirit moved.

    And why is that? You've got a BIG statement to back up there!!!!! So 20 people being rescued from Hell is worse than 5 people? Amazing.

    I am still waiting for your proofs, using appropriate Scripture.
     
  18. ScottEmerson

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    [​IMG] Read the four Gospels, and then read the Acts of the Apostles.

    If you can find your methods in there I will be quite willing to agree with them.

    God Bless

    Enda
    </font>[/QUOTE]I have shown in the previous post how Zaccheus, lepers, and other people came to Jesus not for spiritual conversion, but for many, many other reasons. The burden of proof is on you to show specifically what part of this is sinful. In the absence of Scriptural support, you must also be silent.
     
  19. DanielFive

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    Sorry I wasn't clear in my post above. What I mean is that 5 genuine conversions are worth more than 20 professions after a concert.

    Scott, think about what I am saying here before you reply. I am getting tired of making the same points over and over again.

    Firstly, I must admit I didn't realise you believed in total depravity. You have stated above that the Holy Spirit brought these people to the meeting. You cannot then go on to say 'they will not come' to hear preaching or Christian music, you are limiting the power of the Holy Spirit.

    In effect you do not rely on the Spirit to draw sinners to the Word, you use secular music.

    Getting to the point. Zaccheus came to Jesus for a healing miracle. Jesus used this opportunity to perform a spiritual miracle. Jesus did not sin in any way here.

    If your next door neighbour comes to your door and asks for a cup of sugar I have no objection to you using this as an opportunity to witness to him, in fact I would encourage you to do so.

    Your group performed songs with the following lyrics:
    eg. Girl to Boy:

    You don't own me
    I'm not just one of your many toys
    You don't own me
    Don't say I can't go with other boys...

    Boy to Girl:
    Cause you are, my fire,
    The one, desire,
    Believe, when I say,
    I want it that way

    Surely you don't need me to point out the sinfulness in these lyrics?

    To use songs such as these to attract the ungodly is doing evil that good may come of it. Jesus was NEVER guilty of such an act so please out of respect for our Saviour STOP comparing your methods to His.

    God Bless

    Enda
     
  20. Johnv

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    You'd be surprised at how many secular songs have spiritual meaning. Take, for example, the first verse of Maybe I'm Amazed (Paul McCartney):

    Maybe I'm Amazed At The Way You Love Me All The Time
    Maybe I'm Afraid Of The Way I Love You
    Maybe I'm Amazed At The The Way You Pulled Me Out Of Time
    And Hung Me On A Line
    Maybe I'm Amazed At The Way I Really Need You
    Maybe I'm A Man And Maybe I'm A Lonely Man
    Who's In The Middle Of Something
    That He Doesn't Really Understand
     

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