Seeker Churches = Apostates?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Feb 11, 2015.

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  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    In study last night the leader read a quote from the book "The Upper-room" in which Mac says that seeker churches or aka Self-esteem churches which are seeker churches are not really churches but cult churches. Thinking of the quote I am not sure I agree completely with Mac here and it is not often that I disagree with the Babe Ruth of christianity today. Seeker churches do affirm the essentials of the faith in general, they just are infantile in other areas. So this leads to a discussion are seeker churches apostate and should I be sending letters to them? So far I have ignored them.
     
  2. PreachTony

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    Why do you feel the need to hold up MacArthur as the "Babe Ruth of christianity today?" You do realize that Babe Ruth, while a great ball-player, was a heavy drinking, heavy smoking, quite unhealthy, unrepentant womanizer, right? I wouldn't advise comparing any Christian with another person, especially one like Babe Ruth, and especially when it's someone, like MacArthur, that you apparently hold in high regard.
    Consider Paul's words to those at Corinth. Measuring ourselves against anyone else, or comparing ourselves or others to anyone else, is not a wise move. Instead account for the grace God has shown us. (And yes, this is an "oh me" statement, because I'm guilty of this too.)

    Can you explain how they affirm the essentials of the faith, but then act infantile in other areas? I'm curious what metric you are using to determine these things, and then to determine their standing as apostate or not.
     
  3. Tom Bryant

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    Now that's funny

    I am sure he will have to take half a baby aspirin to sleep when he finds out you disagree.
     
  4. quantumfaith

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  5. InTheLight

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    I think you should go to one of their services and find out for yourself what they affirm. Maybe have a 5 minute Q&A with the pastor. Otherwise you are just an uninformed heckler.
     
  6. evangelist6589

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    His batting record and home runs were excellent and that was my comparison. His off the job activities we're unchristian.
     
  7. evangelist6589

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    Their music is very flesh oriented as well as their preaching. I have been in many of these kinds of churches and they are bare bones in theology with a dosage of self-help in sermons. In fact the last I visited in December the sermon was shallow and they did not even have a library nor bookstore. Talking with a greeter theology was not a love of the majority which was sad but all too common in these churches.

    In fact I know a couple that are members. They believe alcohol as a way to evangelize the world, they do not love theology, and their lifestyle seems over focused on living for the flesh and pleasures of life.

    Are they saved? They affirm that they are so I can't say. Full denial of LS does or does not make one saved I can't say for certain as plenty of good bible teachers that I respect disagree with LS.
     
    #7 evangelist6589, Feb 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2015
  8. evangelist6589

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    Can rabbits talk?
     
  9. blessedwife318

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    So your saying that Mac strikes out more often then he hits a home run?
    1330 strike outs to 714 homeruns
     
  10. PreachTony

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    A church has to have a bookstore or library? I didn't know that. My church does not have a bookstore. The self-help stuff sneaks into out speech from time to time, so it's not surprising to hear it in a sermon. So long as the sermon is spiritual, then we should at least hear the words, regardless how we apply them or not.

    How is the music "flesh oriented?" Do you mean they play modern pop songs? Or do you mean the 7-11 worship pop that is so theologically shallow that it simply appeals to our inherent love of patterns and beats?

    I've never heard of alcohol being a way to evangelize. Not everyone loves theology, as some folks simply view it as boring and stuffy. Plenty of Christians struggle with separating themselves from worldly pleasures. It's a constant battle and requires solid teaching and preaching, combined with a desire by the person to avoid such things.

    It's not really our place to question anyone's salvation, especially not based off something like their chosen theology. You find yourself in some scary territory if you do that, like our fellow BB member who decided that anyone who didn't hold to the Doctrine of Grace as the gospel was unsaved. It's not a safe place to be. Using someone's belief on Lordship Salvation as the litmus test for their experience of grace is likewise flawed. You have plenty of BB members who disagree with LS. If someone claims salvation, then their life should bear it out, not that their works gain them salvation, but that their works reveal to others their salvation.
     
  11. JamesL

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    :laugh:

    I think if somebody wanted to write to an apostate, they should start with Mac
     
  12. Salty

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    and that is what is interesting about the Babe -
    Yes, he held the all time strike out record - which when combined with his -then home run record - tells us that by "striking out" we should never give up.
    How many Christians have "struck out" after witnessing to only 2 or 3 people - and because of that - have given up.

    As a Salesman - the rule of thumb is 10 phone calls to make one apt & 10 appointments to make one sale.

    We as Christians give up way too easy.

    Of course, I read the OP and it was talking about sending letters to apostate churches. This subject has been hashed over time and time again.

    Lets just be concerned about witnessing to individuals. Now if our everyday contact brings into a personal friendship with a pastor or other leader of an apostate church - now that is another story...
     
  13. InTheLight

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    Then move on to Washer.
     
  14. PreachTony

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    :thumbs: :applause: :thumbsup:

    Can we go ahead and throw Osteen, Warren, Jakes, Dollar, Meyer, and White in there, as well?
     
  15. evangelist6589

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    I simply said I could not say for certain about salvation so I don't know.
     
  16. evangelist6589

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    Then you need to Reread the post. It was not talking about sending letters to churches primarily it was talking about if seeker are apostate.
     
  17. evangelist6589

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    Mac does not hit a home run with everybook but many of his are singles, doubles, and triples. Mac has an excellent batting average.
     
  18. Iconoclast

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    :laugh::laugh::laugh::thumbs:
     
  19. RLBosley

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    Well MacArthur is a dispy.... :laugh:
     
  20. RLBosley

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    Did you really just lump Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, TD Jakes, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer, James White, John MacArthur and Paul Washer together ?
    As apostates? :eek:

    I'm sorry but that's absurd.
     
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