Seeking Antagonists

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Darrell C, Feb 22, 2015.

  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Hi guys, looking for antagonists in forum debate for a book project I am working on which has as a goal the motivation to take Forum Missions more seriously and to encourage those who do not feel they have an avenue of witness for the Lord to understand...there is an open field out there.

    Topics of debate will be:

    1:.OSAS versus loss of salvation;

    2. Eschatological debate (i.e., Pre versus Post and Amil, Rapture timing, et cetera);

    3. Deity of Christ versus humanity only;

    4: Various debates among believers.


    I hold to the first position stated in each above.

    All usage of debates will maintain anonymity for the posters, and permissions to use the debates will have to be given.

    Many of us use to forum discussion know the value of interaction between believers and even non-believers, as such discussion motivates our study time. But how many of us consider the many forums as a field of witness by which we can impact others for Christ?

    If anyone is interested please let me know.


    God bless.
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1
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    ......................
     
    #2 convicted1, Feb 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2015
  3. The American Dream

    The American Dream
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    Lot of theological insight there, Buba.
     
  4. Doubting Thomas

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    By stating you are motivated to take Forum Missions more seriously, are you implying that folks have to line up exactly where you do on issues #1 and #2 in order for them to be considered fellow believers? And if folks do disagree with you about #1 and #2, do you consider them to be a priority to "reach" on your Forum Mission field?
     
  5. Thousand Hills

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    I'm confused, are you recruiting trolls? If so you probably came to the right place.
     
  6. OldRegular

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    He has those from time to time. It may be what some call an epiphany!:laugh:

    ************************************
     
  7. convicted1

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    That's morse code for 'take a long walk off a short pier Brother A.D.' :tongue3:
     
  8. convicted1

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    No. More akin to an malfunction...
     
  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    No, of course not, but, when it comes to the Gospel of Christ there are issues where we do have to "line up," and there is no better testing ground than Theological discussion and debate.

    While one might disagree with me concerning the Security of the Believer, they are welcome to put their doctrine to the test and show how I am wrong, and in the course of that discussion the audience can benefit from the perspectives of the two sides.

    As far as who I consider fellow believers, the truth is that if ignorance negated salvation then we would all be in trouble, because none of us start out knowing all that much to begin with. Salvation does not take place when one reaches a particular knowledge level, salvation takes place when the Comforter ministers to the heart of the natural man and brings that person to the point where they are enlightened to the truth and respond to God.

    But thanks for jumping to conclusions.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    No, simply looking for antagonists, as the OP states. Believe it or not we learn quite a bit from our antagonists. In speaking with atheists, for example, I have been able to learn how better to direct my attention to the protests they raise, which directs my Scriptural studies and affords me an ability to have an answer for those complaints.

    Same goes with the doctrinal differences we have among ourselves as believers: if one believes salvation can be lost, the reasonable thing to do is to consult the Word of God and test the support given to undergird that position. The one that believes salvation cannot be lost is also forced to not only supply a Scriptural presentation for his view, but to directly answer the support his antagonist presents.

    It's really a win/win situation.

    But here is my goal: I think there are many that want to witness for Christ in a greater capacity, yet may feel they have not been specifically called for that purpose. The truth is, on these forums, we see many who have been called to be involved in the Word of God and their presence here is a testimony to their love for the Word of God. And anyone that has been involved in forum discussion for any amount of time will know that it motivates to an accelerated devotion to study, which in turn helps us grow and be better prepared to witness to those we come in contact with.

    I believe that most that are involved on a regular basis stand out from many in the Body, being those who have been gifted in areas pertaining to the Word of God. How we develop those gifts depends on how we study, and in Theological Debate we help each other in areas where we may be weak, whether from lack of use or familiarity or because we have an indoctrinated view from our ecclesiastical heritage (meaning what we have come to know through our attendance in a fellowship).

    There does not have to be enmity between antagonists, it is, believe it or not, possible to disagree with a brother and still maintain a healthy relationship. Sometimes that is the first lesson we need to learn. That was definitely my case.

    All of us feel our position is correct, but, the rubber meets the road when we test our positions among other members of the Body. The perspectives of our brothers and sisters may call attention to something we have not previously considered, which may greatly impact areas of our positions by which we can grow.

    Hope that helps better explain.


    God bless.
     
  11. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    I thought it was a flat-line.

    Praying for...

    .................'...'..'..!..''...''W''..!W!!!!W!!!WWWWWWWW


    ;)
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Does it "help" that I differ with you on some of those points?
     
  13. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Hello Bob, long time no type, lol.

    Glad to see you still in there, and yes...it does help. You could probably check some old posts to see our interaction some years ago, but as stated in the OP, I am looking for antagonists that take a different position, not because I want to prove my positions correct, necessarily, but to illustrate dialogue on forums between believers, as well as unbelievers (which I think should take place after one has become more familiar with forum discussion as a whole).

    Because of Copyright Protection Laws, and the bottomless can of worms that represents, I need express permission from the antagonist for their posts to be used in the book. Learning to interact with those of differing views is something I think we all need to learn, and it is an ongoing lesson, but, as we grow in Christ it becomes apparent that we can interact without enmity and in doing so...we can grow.

    So let me know if you're interested, and again, good to "see" you again. Now that I think about it, I think we first met on a different forum.


    God bless.
     
  14. Darrell C

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    Hi guys, still looking for any antagonists that might be interested in allowing their posts to be used in a book project. Topics centered on are loss of salvation, the Rapture, the New Birth (when it began), Free Will, and a variety of other issues central to our understanding of the Bible.

    God bless.
     
  15. TrevorL

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    Greetings Darrell C,

    I do not like the term “antagonist”, as I would prefer to discuss and resolve any differences based upon the Word of God. So I am not sure what you would require here. Where would the “debate” be conducted? Are you suggesting a formal debate, or simply an interaction on a particular subject, say on this forum?

    I hold a different position to you on some of the above:
    1. I believe that having been saved by a belief of the gospel and baptism, that then we can fall away and lose our salvation.
    2. We may have some common ground on this topic as I believe in pre-millenialism, but most probably we have a different view of the sequence and the result. I believe in the Kingdom of God upon the earth for 1000 years, with Christ reigning in literal Jerusalem over the restored nation of Israel and the subdued nations Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:44, Zechariah 14. I do not believe in the “rapture” as popularly held.
    3. I do not accept that Jesus is God the Son, the second person of the Trinity. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that there is one God, the Father. As God is the father of Jesus, Luke 1:35, then Jesus is not "humanity only", but the Son of God, a unique being, but sharing fully our human nature. He did not have two natures during his ministry.
    4. Please nominate what you have in mind here.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
     
  16. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Thanks for the reply Trevor, you are the first serious responder to this on a number of forums it has gone out to.

    "Antagonist" isn't something negative, it just represents two of different opinion.

    It is simple enough as far as what I am trying to do, which is do a book project on forum missions, in hopes of bringing people into this vast field of witness with a more direct focus on evangelization (as opposed to more of a social focus where we tend to stay on one forum). It will be doctrinal, of course, but also will seek to help people learn how to, for themselves, study Scripture. It also has in view our conduct and how we can learn from our, ahem, antagonists (lol). We learn at an accelerated rate when the views we currently hold are challenged by other Bible Students.


    The debates and discussion can take place here, I simply have to have permission (due to Copyright Laws) to use the debates in the project. If you prefer to be anonymous that is okay, your member name can be changed.

    As far as formal, it is up to you, as we all have different styles of posting.


    And this is a favorite subject of mine. I hold to Eternal Security and usually this discussion involves looking at the proof-texts of those that endorse loss of salvation (i.e., Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:26, etc.).


    A great topic which holds more impact on our soteriology than most recognize.


    I am Trinitarian myself, though we might be found in agreement concerning Christ. It is important to understand that the Christ, the Messiah...has a point in time in which He manifested. Equally important is understanding that the Son, as He is referred to in Scripture, is Eternal, and in fact is the very One Who created the World. I believe, in large part, that the term, "Son" is primarily a reference to the Incarnation, and when we keep that in mind we understand the Trinity better.

    I do believe He had two natures, and that His Glory (the Glory of God) was veiled by the human flesh He took upon Himself. That He is God manifest in the flesh, and that God is One, though it is clear there is a distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


    A primary subject is the New Birth and how that relates to the different Ages of Biblical History. I believe the eternal indwelling of the Comforter is new to Biblical History beginning at Pentecost. This ties to the Ministry of Christ and the Revelation that He provided during that time, meaning, I view remission of sins, eternal indwelling, entrance to Heaven, and in general a completion only prophesied in the Old Testament to have been bestowed at Pentecost.

    And there are many issues that can be discussed, which would be more for you to introduce. All of us have areas that we focus on at any given time in our studies, so what interests you will likely be something that has value in Doctrinal Discussion.

    Again, thanks for the serious reply. And now, I am out of time, so hope you will give this prayerful consideration.


    God bless.
     
  17. steaver

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    Do these have to be current debates? I have many threads of some of these topics, especially OSAS. You are free to use anything I have posted in the past or future to come.

    One of the topics that has intrigued me presently is the ignorance some Christian's have concerning the New Covenant. It's like they do not see anything different between the Old and the New. The entire NT is about regeneration which only began after the glorification of Jesus Christ (John 7). It is the Promise being fulfilled. Yet some think saints have been being born-again since Adam.
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Dear Darrel,

    You will always have obstacles in your way, like this type:

    I recommend you put it on your list in number 1 position.

    Such as Thomas here, cannot tolerate <<<forums as a field of witness by which we can impact others for Christ>>> because it is an offense to them personally which they have no idea how to digest and benefit by.

    Best wishes for your project, you will need God’s blessing!
     
  19. TrevorL

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    Greetings again Darrell C,

    I appreciate your response. Possibly I would not be the best candidate for all the different subjects that you have nominated and other subjects that you may want to discuss. For example the first topic:
    This is simply a topic that I believe based upon a number of Scriptures, and possibly I would not refer to those that you mention. Possibly Steaver would be better in discussing this subject even though I may not agree with him on every aspect that he states in disagreeing with OSAS. For the record my basis is mainly the Parable of the Sower and the reference in the Olivet Prophecy, Matthew 24:12-13. Also a few examples of believers who HAVE fallen away, eg Demas.

    On the third subject I have had extensive discussion on this Forum, on a thread titled “Trinity” started by Steaver, but also attracting many other participants. I agree with Steaver that you should feel free to use this material, or I could email a revised summary to avoid any question of copyright. I did have an email discussion with a Trinitarian using similar material.

    On the second subject I have different views to many on this Forum, because their focus is on Heaven going, both at death and possibly also after the resurrection. I am still confused as what Baptists and others really believe on this topic, as there seems to be a wide variety of opinions. My belief is in the mortality of the soul, waiting for the return of Christ for the resurrection and then participating in the Kingdom of God for the 1000 years. I look to the Promises concerning Eve, and to Abraham and David as the basis of the New Covenant confirmed in Christ. I consider immortal souls and heaven going at death is based upon Pagan and Greek philosophy, not upon a proper understanding of the Bible. Again I have discussed some of this at length on this Forum.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
     
  20. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Though work has kept me busy for several months now, I do generally find forums and spend about a thousand posts on each one, having only left a few with less posting for various reasons, one being unjust Moderation (one forum, a Church of Christ forum, was censoring my posting about Baptismal Regeneration).

    And I never really thought about it before, but that is actually a good idea: using responses from others.

    I may contact you about that.


    This is a truth that I too have been astounded by the refusal of many to come to grips with. It is amazing that one would think what was promised in the Old Testament...was actually being bestowed. For several years I have been trying my best to impress these truths with mostly opposition, but, I am beginning to see more people become aware.

    The promise of the New Covenant did indeed promise Eternal Indwelling, and when we get into Hebrews most will miss the fact that there is a focus on those promises, chapters 8, 9, and 10 having a focus on another promise...remission of sins in completion (called perfection and perfect in Hebrews):


    Hebrews 8:7-13

    King James Version (KJV)

    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

    8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.



    This is precisely what the Writer states here:


    Hebrews 10:15-18

    King James Version (KJV)

    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin
    .



    The simple point missed is that when one is forgiven through sanctification unto God through the Sacrifice of Christ...there is no more offering for sin, because, as promised by God...He remembers them no more.

    It is positional within Covenantal Relationship, even as the remission of sins (which was temporary) through the sacrifice of animals was positional. The difference being, one has eternal value, while the former has only temporal and temporary value.

    I get strange looks when I tell people men like Abraham, Moses, and David...basically died in their sins. Because their sin had not been eternally redeemed through Christ's Sacrifice:


    Hebrews 9:13-15

    King James Version (KJV)

    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.



    It is only under New Testament conditions that transgressions are redeemed on an eternal basis. All Old Testament Saints died still needing their sins to be redeemed by the Blood (Death) of Christ:


    16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.


    It is impossible to impose the Promises of the New Covenant prior to Christ's Death.

    So keep at it, my friend, and I will be right there beside you.

    :thumbs:


    God bless.
     

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