Seeking Info two schools

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by J.D., Jul 31, 2006.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    Can anyone share information (recommendations, cautions) with me on these two schools: Arlington Baptist College (Texas) and Piedmont Bible College (North Carolina)?

    Also would like to know more about J Frank Norris - what was the nature of his falling out with John R Rice in 1936?
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    You mean more information like his shooting a man in the back?

    ;)

    ABC is a good school. IMHO - Don't flame me . . . :saint:

    PS you can google them and get most of the info you want. BTW Norris was acquitted for murder. ;)

     
  3. J.D.

    J.D.
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    I've already done the google thing - I'm hoping for some info from people closer in. I'm not interested in the anti-Norris stuff, but specifically I would like to know why the SOL says that Norris parted company with JRR. What was the issue. Where was Norris doctrinally?

    And I would like to have recommendations/cautions on the two schools mentioned as they operate today. Any ABC or Piedmont alumni out there?
     
  4. El_Guero

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    J Frank had some personality quirks. One of those quirks showed up when he shot a man in the back - after this his support dwindled continually until the split.

    Most comments seem to indicate that the split was more about personality than about theology. Control seemed to be one of the driving factors.

    As for ABC, my friends that have gone there enjoyed it.
     
  5. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    John of Japan

    EG,

    John of Japan is John R. Rice's grandson. He could probably lent some info to the discussion.

    Where are you JOJ when we need you?:thumbsup:

    sdg!

    rd
     
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Well Rhet,

    If I have erred, then I humbly ask forgiveness.

    :saint:

    Wayne
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Norris and Rice

    I hear and obey, Rhet. :wavey:

    Norris and Grandpa Rice were close friends early in his ministry. An old pastor once proudly showed me a photo of the two on a golf course. Old J. Frank once said about John R. Rice (quoting Winston Churchill, I believe), "John R. Rice is the kindest, gentlest, sweetest man ever to stab a man in the back or scuttle a ship!" In those days they were both in the SBC.

    In 1926, at age 30, John R. joined up with Norris, speaking on Norris’ radio program to combat the teaching of evolution at Baylor U., John R.’s alma mater. (A little boy named Criswell once met John R. at a revival meeting and said, “When I get big I’m going to be a preacher like you and wear a big Baylor belt buckle like that!”) That is what ruined John R. with the Texas Baptist Convention, by the way, hanging out with J. Frank Norris! But I digress.

    Jump forward to 1935, when John R. was the editor of Norris’ magazine, The Fundamentalist. Norris wrote an article viciously attacking Sam Morris, a prominent pastor and radio preacher of the day, but John R., being editor, had it killed, warning Norris that such an attack was wrong. You did not cross J. Frank without consequences, though, so John R. was fired as editor and the rift was complete.

    However, Norris went even further. John R. was scheduled to preach an evangelistic campaign at the Grace Baptist Church of Binghamton, NY, in January of 1936. Norris sent the pastor, one Fred Hawley, a letter claiming that John R. had “embraced a full platform of holy rollerism.” The only thing true about that is that Rice believed very strongly in the filling of the Holy Spirit for God’s work. (I’ve heard Grandad tell this story a few times!)

    Hawley sent Rice a telegram cancelling the meeting—not a good idea with John R.! John R. wrote a telegram back saying that God had called him to Binghamton, and he was going to preach there whether at Grace Baptist or somewhere else! And he told Hawley that he was heading out in the car, and no one would be able to contact him until he got to NY! My mother has told me about that trip—they headed straight for NY, do not pass “Go” and do not collect $100!

    By the time John R. had gotten to NY, Hawley had investigated and was convinced John R. was being slandered by Norris. Scores of pastors, including the afore-mentioned Sam Morris, wrote Hawley backing Rice. So the meeting went on as planned with great blessing, becoming a city-wide meeting. They moved out of the church into the Birmingham Theater, with as many as 1600 coming to the meetings, and 376 professions of faith, almost all adults.

    Norris tried to hinder Rice’s ministry after that, having his assistant Louis Entzminger writing an attack article in The Fundamentalist, writing articles and sending letters himself, and even trying to have the post office cancel the mailing of The Sword of the Lord, John R.’s paper, which he founded that year, I believe.

    For his part, Rice wrote an article in the “Sword” saying, “I urge friends everywhere to love and pray for Dr. Norris. He is a great man, has won many thousands of souls, and has stood for the fundamentals of the Faith in a way that has greatly honored God…. I know Dr. Norris well. His pride and his feeling that the Fundamentalist cause will fare better if he can absolutely control it, are very natural human temptations to which all of us are subject. If we had such great blessings as Dr. Norris has had, we might be guilty of the same thing. Let no bitterness come in your heart toward this man of God who has, in this matter, acted so foolishly. Read his paper, The Fundamentalist. He will print some great sermons. Listen to him over the radio. His messages have blessed many. Pray for the two great churches he pastors, one in Fort Worth and the other in Detroit” (quote from John R. Rice, the Captain of our Team, by Viola Walden, pp. 44-45).

    And that, friends, is “the rest of the story.”
     
  8. iknowsomething

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    Had the president of the Piedmont Baptist speak at church not long ago. One of the current focuses is to expand their online program. Overall I sense that it's biggest asset is one on one time with the professors, and a general family atmostphere in a scholastic setting. Seem solid theologically speaking. . .
     
  9. J.D.

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    JofJ, thanks for the info, it's just what I needed. This helps me to better understand Norris' role in the independent movement and why so many seem to respect the man and yet keep a distance from his legacy. Makes sense now.
     
  10. J.D.

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    Yes, I was looking at their on-line program. It goes under the name "Spurgeon College" (they absorbed the defunct college in Florida). It seems to be outstanding, but very expensive. I'm praying about taking some of the courses.
     
  11. gb93433

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    I have a friend who taught some online classes for two years and said that he will never do it again. It was very time consuming and that the students did not benefit as much as being in class.
     
  12. El_Guero

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    I knew some of the result, but none of the details. Having noted the difference between the bbfi and wbf (did i get those right - i am sbc), it is really nice to see that Rice was so pleasant during the disagreement. Oh that we all could be so. The cause of Christ would benefit so much - I think.

     
  13. John of Japan

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    You are welcome. :wavey:
     
  14. rickh

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    Their online program is excellent. It isn't one of those "here's a video, write a paper and send it back to us whenever you get around to it" type programs. They are seven week long courses that are directed and taught by a professor at Piedmont. There is typically online discussion that is required by all students, as well as a lot of reading and writing. If you don't like to read and write...this isn't for you.

    I'm sure you've probably visited their website, but give them a call and talk to them about it.

    Rick
     

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