seeking information

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    Does anyone know if there are full gospel type reformed, Doctrines of Grace, Calvinist churches?

    Or, are the two mutually exclusive?
     
  2. JamesL

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    I would be inclined to think they are mutually exclusive, for "Full Gospel" is associated with Pentecostalism, which came out of the Holiness Movement of John Wesley and others who were Arminian. Holiness and/or Full Gospel churches include:

    Assembly of God
    Church of God (Holiness)
    Nazarene
    Church of Christ
    Christian Church
    Quite a few others, too

    You might find some churches that would be considered "Bapti-costal" but probably not truly "Full Gospel" and not Calvinist
     
  3. agedman

    agedman
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    I couldn't find any on line, either.
     
  4. Jerome

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  5. agedman

    agedman
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    Thank you, Jerome.

    I noticed at the bottom of the website, that three churches are involved. That is a good start.

    Perhaps more information will be found and added to the thread.
     
  6. Jerome

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    :confused:

    The three pastors are the members the association's board.
     
  7. Jerome

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    Mahaney's (imploding) Sovereign Grace group is another...I'm puzzled why all this is news; he's been quite prominent pallng around with Mark Dever, Al Mohler, and co.
     
  8. agedman

    agedman
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    Oh, you are right.


    Ok, I should have looked far more closely at the web page.

    I see there is a page of associated churches.

    Thank you.
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Such was the impetus for MacArthur's "Strange Fire" conference last fall. There ARE pastors/church that ARE "reformed" and "Baptist", but do not believe in cessation of the sign-gifts of the holy Spirit.

    John Piper is well known (Pastor, Bethlehem Baptist, Minneapolis) as fully reformed Baptist but believes in tongues, word of knowledge, prophecy, healing et al.

    John Mac brought in a vast assortment (every area of the spectrum) of Reformed Baptist types to present truth refuting this.
     
  10. agedman

    agedman
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    Thank you for the information.
     
  11. agedman

    agedman
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    Dr. Bob,

    Do you think this is an accurate report of the event and positions?

    Piper and MacArthur
     
  12. JamesL

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    I'm curious if any Calvinists actually define themselves as Full Gospel. I can see that some are treading away from cessation, but I've never thought of the gifts as the entirety of the Full Gospel teaching.

    I was raised in a Missionary Baptist Church, and by a mother who referred to herself as Full Gospel. I also attended an Assembly of God church back in the late 90s. From what I've seen, the hallmark doctrine of a Full Gospel church is the belief that every believer has guaranteed access to divine healing, per 1Peter 2:24:

    Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    The claim is made that if your "gospel" doesn't include physical healing as being part of what Jesus paid for, then it is not a "full" gospel - only a partial gospel. Some stress this aspect far greater than others. For some, it is accessible through prayer and laying on of hands - as God sees fit. Most of this type seem to use the term "Spirit filled" rather than Full Gospel. Others think there is something spiritually wrong with a sick believer.


    I could very well be wrong, but I have not seen any Calvinist who espouses this supposed fullness of the gospel including divine healing. I am not real familiar with Calvinists within the Charismatic Movement. Do anyone know if there are any who embrace this healing aspect of the Full Gospel teaching?

    That's why I wrote that "Bapti-costal" churches are probably not truly "Full Gospel" and not Calvinist.

    The Southern Baptist church I recently moved from has many there who consider themselves "Bapti-costal" because they believe all the gifts of the Spirit are active today.

    I also believe this, but I shudder to think I would ever be associated with that brand of excess called Charismatic. I would also hide if I were ever thought of as Full Gospel.


    I guess it could just be a few of my random thoughts, but this thread brought back memories of my childhood, and my time in that Full Gospel AG church before I became a believer. I've seen many of the excesses of both Spirit-filled and Full Gospel types
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    I think my wife and I came on one once back when we were searching for a church to go to, in the Niagara Falls region back in '06.
    Had the whole shebang from bands to worship leader to choruses and repetitive singing.
    Much as I agreed with most of their doctrines, my wife and I never went back.
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    Not very many, nor many that are Baptists either, as those who hold to that teaching NOT"rightly dividing the word of God!"
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    ALL true Christians preach and teach a 'full Gospel", as that is NOT what the Bible means, regardless of what pentacostalists/charasmatics think!
     
  16. JamesL

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    You're right. But from what I've witnessed, those who call themselves Full Gospel are the ones who believe divine healing was purchased on the cross, while those who believe the gifts of the Spirit are the fullness of the gospel simply call themselves Spirit Filled.

    Like I said, I could be wrong, as it's only a first hand observation - not anything I've seen officially stated anywhere. Seems to be they all pretty much state it the same way officially, but I've noticed the different use of terminology

    In my estimation, Full Gospel is one sector of Charismatics, but not all Charismatics teach the so-called Full Gospel, at least to the same extent


    That's why I believe some Calvinists could be Spirit Filled, without actually being Full Gospel. Because for the Calvinist, the gospel is full without any guarantee of divine healing

    It's a difference between the cross and Pentecost
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    Would still see it in Minority to have EITHER baptist/reformed holding to that, as that theology just does not seem to be 'rightly dividing the truth!"
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    think it depends on if one is pentacostal, or Charasmatic, as old time ones would see it as having the fulness of the Spirit, Charasmatics as 5 fold ministires...

    problem is neither are really biblical correct in this!
     
  19. agedman

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    I don't want to derail this thread from the OP too far, but would think that it is important to state that John Piper is non-cessation thinking.

    He is Baptist, and was a preacher in an inner city Baptist church for 35 or so years, and has never spoken in tongues. He is now retired, and living (if I recall) in Tennessee.

    Although he does teach that the gifts did not cease, he stresses that they are a secondary issue in comparison to one overflowing with the Spirit of God.

    He stresses that the emphasis should be placed upon the believer being completely saturated both inward and outward with the presence of God. By using the illustration of one viewing the lake from a distance being different than one submerged in the lake's water, he points to a believer who is filled cannot help but proclaim the gospel, deliver the message of God to all cultures of all nations , and minister to the sick.

    Is not evidence of a believer filled with the spirit displayed by performing the "gifts": Prophecy=proclaimation of God's truth, Tongues= proclaiming the truth to all nations so they understand, Healing=ministering to the sick and providing prayer and helps as the believer has been blessed?.


    He also does not view that any manifestation of the gift (tongues, healing, prophecy) is any indication that one is more righteous or has more standing with God than any believer who is saturated with the Holy Spirit.


    Note: the above is what I took from his views. Those of you more wise and learned in what he has taught may note some area I have mis-characterized. Please - correct me - I am merely attempting to restate from multiple areas some of the thinking.
    What the OP seeks is sort of a list of those who also endorse Piper like or unlike non-cessation views, and also hold to the doctrines of grace thinking.

    I am assuming that the second question of the OP has been answered in the thread; that the two are NOT mutually exclusive.
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    Perhaps, but believe the Op was adressing more of can reformed, and I added baptist churches, can hold also to 'full" charasmatic doctrines, such as tongues, second act of grace, "baptism in HG" etc, and still hoold few would go that far!
     

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