Featured Seeking truth about "tongues"...

Now this is a jewel of a conversation!!!:thumbs::tonofbricks:

 

The rebuke is in the church! Do not speak in tongues in church without the interpretation. You add to it! He did not!

No, he is not! he is saying in church do not speak in tongues without the interpretation. He says later "forbid not to speak in tongues"

Are you not the one that corrected a post not to far back on the word "AND"...meaning two different prayers..meaning Both praying in the spirit AND with understanding. Praying in the spirit is tongues vs. 14 is clear on that! Your spirit prays when you speak in tongues!

When someone speaks in tongues it is the Holy Spirit that gives the utterance. Read Acts 2!

I trust the Word over your misinterpretation! It is amazing how many time you ignore vs. 13 in order to make that statement.

You have to be kidding! Now you are saying no one but the apostles can be baptized in the Holy Spirit! Yet in Acts 10, 8 and 19 others received the Spirit upon just like they did in Acts..with speaking in tongues!

NO, I will take the scriptures as written without your additions!

Well you forget the Gentiles...and the disciples Paul met in Ephesus.

OK..that makes sense! They understood what they were saying but go ahead and pray for the interpretation anyway! Really!

Wrong for the hundreth time! God sees the heart without you opening your mouth! You have proven you have no idea what tongues are! You can go ahead and tear out verse 13 out of your Bible...you ignore it anyway!

 

Either way..praying in the spirit is tongues! Tongues is just one of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Yes! it is plain that speaking in tongues is speaking to God! Confirmed in vs. 28 speak to God! Blessing in the spirit is also speaking to God.

First your example is wrong from the start because tongues are not to communicate man with man but with God. vs. 2. THe interpretation is for the church to know how to say "amen" to your PRAYER! I believe PRAYER is speaking to God!

I like using the term that the Bible uses! Does that bother you? I have shown in context of the whole chapter that not once is praying in the spirit/speaking to God/blessing/giving thanks speaking to people but to God! We are to interpret what is said so the others can say amen to our prayer!

Really? Jude says that I am and so does vs. 4! I will take Pauls definition of "praying in the spirit." Paul uses "I" all through chapter 14! He is even thankful that he speaks in tongues more than all! But not in the church! He would rather speak in HIS UNDERSTANDING! I think that is a contrast...speaking in tongues must not be understood by Paul...but speaking in words with MY UNDERSTANDING can be understood. Now if Paul knew what he was saying it would be easy to speak in tongues and translate it for the church...but that is not what he said! He would rather speak in a language that HE HIMSELF understands so he can teach! Because tongues is not used for teaching.

 

Yes, that was your silly defense.
Tell me then, what was Paul's purpose in writing this verse to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

 

Jude says absolutely nothing about praying in tongues; nothing at all.
Prove that he does:

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

There is nothing there about speaking in another language (the gift of tongues).
Do an exposition of the text and show that that is the meaning.

 

That is foolishness, as that means Jesus Christ and all God's saints prior to the gift of dialects could not pray in the Spirit. That means all prayers not done by tongues is in the flesh. The Bible only provides two alternatives for everything done - it is either done "in the flesh" or "in the Spirit" - there is no third alternative.

It is also foolish because the only reason for even the possibility of your doctrine is to claim a superior spiritual way to pray. Otherwise it serves no purpose any better than praying "in the Spirit" by English.

YOu pick exactly what God condemns (vv. 1-19) and ignore exactly what God defines the proper purpose of tongues is for (vv. 20-22).

It is pointless to go back over the same scriptures over and over again as the only thing you have proved is that you know how to twist, ignore, jerk and pervert the Word of God to suit your own purposes.

 

Think this was missed in the middle of all the other postsm

 

Start a new thread and I will!

 

Building yourselves up on your most holy faith! Sounds alot like vs. 4 in 1 Cor. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself! We can not edify others until we are build up ourselves. Kinda like charging yourself up like a battery.
Praying in the Holy Ghost sounds a lot like vs. 14...For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth!...What is it then? I will pray with the spirit!

 

Many of your arguments are based on your own patented definitions which you get from the KJV. For example, "The Manifestation." Take away the expression and you are lost. You don't know what to do without it. "He gives "the utterance." Another fancy word you have a patented definition. Define it correctly and within its context and again you are lost. (Have you made an application with the Patent office of America yet, for some of these?) Now you have your own definition for "praying in the spirit." And in doing so you have torched the meaning of Jude 1:20.

Take the verse in another translation, away from the KJV, and see how you do:

(CEV) Dear friends, keep building on the foundation of your most holy faith, as the Holy Spirit helps you to pray.
--Build on the foundation of your most holy faith.
How do you do that? It comes by the study of the word; by the fellowship of God's people; by prayer (in your own language); by witnessing to others; by the continual obedience to the commands of Christ.

--AS the Holy Spirit helps you to pray.
There is nothing about tongues here. The Holy Spirit helps all of us to pray. And that is not speaking in other languages. There is nothing in this verse about tongues.

 

I thought I addressed that!
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17).
Who is left out in this scriptures? Those that do not believe!


Who do you see was left out on the day of Pentecost in the upper room?
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4).

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised [Jewish] believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God." (Acts 10:44-46)
Who was left out?

"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all." (Acts 19:1-7)
Who was left out?

 

How could they pray in the Holy Ghost if it was not given until after Jesus resurrected? When was the Spirit given to guide us into all truth? You forgot with understanding!

Not superior! But two ways with the spirit AND with the understanding. The Holy Spirit can guide us in our own understanding how to pray!

He does not condemn tongues...he condems tongues without the interpretation in church! We are to pray in the spirit with the interpretation in church. If there is no interpretation we are to deep silent in church and speak between ourself AND GOD! Which confirms vs. 2 ... Tongues is speaking to God!

I was thinking the same thing about your interpretation!

 

I see you are the one that is having trouble with those words...why would you take them out of the written word of God?

I agree he does not say that "praying in the spirit" will give you faith. Rom. 10: 17 tells us where faith comes from! We are to build on that faith! And the Spirit helps you by giving you the utterance as he did on the Day of Pentecost!

 

So Paul contradicts himself?

 

No, he is misinterpreted! I know what verse you are speaking of...so why don't you post it?

 

The entirety of 1 Cor 12. Eph 4:11. By all means, please tell us how these are misinterpreted.