self-esteem

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by gekko, Nov 22, 2007.

  1. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    what're your thoughts on this issue?

    self esteem?

    should we have high self esteem?
    should we have low self esteem?

    should there be any idea of self esteem at all?

    is any of it biblical?
     
  2. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Almost anything that starts with 'self' is unbiblical, and the whole self-esteem issue is one of the worst.


    BGTF
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gal 5:13-14 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For brethren, ye haue beene called vnto liberty,
    onely vse not libertie for an occasion to the flesh,
    but by loue serue one another.
    14 For all the Law is fulfilled in one word,
    euen in this:
    Thou shalt loue thy neighbour as thy selfe.


    Jas 2:8 (KJV12611 Edition):
    If ye fulfil the royall Law,
    according to the Scripture,

    Thou shalt loue thy neighbour as thy selfe, ye doe well.


    'Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self'


    That is said 2 times in the Old Testament
    in the books of the Law
    and 7 times in the New Testament:
    4 times by Jesus, 3 times in the Epistles.

    It is said by Jesus that 'Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self'
    is the best law of all, or perchance the second.

    IMHO 'self esteme' = 'love thyself'.

    John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For God so loued ye world,
    that he gaue his only begotten Sonne:
    that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
    should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.


    God loved each of us so much that
    He gave His only begotten Son
    that each of us might be saved.

    How can you hate someone for which Jesus died?
    How can you hate someone God loves that much?

    IMHO 'self esteme' = 'love thyself'.
     
  4. Joe

    Joe
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 12:3,
    Do not think of yourselves more highly than you should. Instead, be modest in your thinking, and each one of you judge himself according to the amount of faith that God has given him."

    Romans 11:20; 12:16
    We must attempt not to be “high-minded” or “wise in [our] own conceits”

    Luke 12:6-7,
    "What is the price of five sparrows? A couple of pennies? Not much more than that. Yet God does not forget a single one of them. And He knows the number of hairs on your head!Never fear, you are far more valuable to Him than a whole flock of sparrows."

    Imo, self esteem is a worldly concept. Yet here are some verses which may come close to the definition.
     
    #4 Joe, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2007
  5. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe we ought to have high esteem. After all, we are made in the image of God and we are a child of the KING...

    Low self esteem is often confused with being humble. It has nothing to do with being humble...just as high esteem has nothing to do with being prideful or 'puffed up'.

    We should not have high esteem because of who we are...but whose we are.
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    Paul's self image: (1) "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief" (1 Tim. 1:15). (2) "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor. 15:9). (3) "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing" (Rom. 7:18).

    John the Baptist's self image: "He must increase, but I must decrease" (John 3:30).

    God's image of us: created in His image (Gen. 1:26), accepted in the beloved (Eph. 1:6), His friends if we obey Him (John 15:14), etc.

    The Bible's prophecy of the self-esteem movement: "1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away" (2 Tim. 3:1-5). Pretty bad company for a self esteem proponent to be in, wouldn't you say?

    Now, if we are complete in Christ (Col. 2:10), why would we want to worry about our own selves? The more we love ourselves, the more we think of ourselves, the more we pamper ourselves, the more difficult it is to walk with God. As for me, I'm with John: "He must increase, but I must decrease."
     
    #6 John of Japan, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2007
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    Now Brother Ed, I like and respect you, but I have to point out something here. There is no command in any of these passages to love ourselves. The commands are to love God and our neighbors. The assumption is that we love ourselves, but there is no such command. So when the Lord says we should love others as we love ourselves, IMO He is merely pointing out that we already love ourselves due to our selfish nature, but we should start loving others instead of ourselves. He is not commanding us to love ourselves. :type:
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    Well said, Joe. :thumbs:
     
  9. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good stuff. Also this:

    Phil 2:3-4 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

    It's the evil of evils.


    BGTF
     
  10. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,833
    Likes Received:
    114
    We are never going to agree on this because we are not using the same definitions.

    The OP is the same exact OP from a few months ago and I started to cut and paste my original response, but I won't.

    There are two camps here.

    (1) Those who believe that self-esteem is a sin. They are defining it as pride, haughtiness, and exalting one's self above God and others. They are defining it as worldly and as ignoring the fact that they are sinners.

    (2) Those (like myself) who define self-esteem as a good thing. Taking to heart that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made". Believing that God has a plan for our lives and that we matter to Him very much despite the fact that we are sinners.

    I see children that I teach with very low self-esteem. Overweight little girls...little boys who don't learn well and can't play ball well....neglected children.....impoverished children. They won't speak up - literally. They won't make eye contact with another human being. And they believe that they are worthless. They have been taught it by one or more of their parents or the message of "perfection" by the world or by the "caste" system of society.

    Having a negative and a pathetic opinion of one's self is damning. It leads to all kinds of ruin.

    Little boys who will do anything to please their classmates and neighborhood boys. Stealing, lying, selling drugs, and more. And these little boys grow up into men who never come to understand that they have worth.

    Little girls who will have sex with the first boy who lies to her and says "I love you". And these little girls grow up into women who believe that any sexual attention from any man is love.

    The discussion here is going to be fruitless unless we all come to a agreement as to what exactly we are talking about.
     
    #10 Scarlett O., Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Princess I Am Blessed 17 -- You are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

    Yes, Sister I AM Blessed 17 - you are a princess!
    When you accepted Jesus as your Lord He became
    your Savior as well. And you also became a child of
    God (That is one of the many things that your 'salvation'
    entails). But the is the King of all Kings & Lord of all Lords.
    The daughter of a King is called a Princess.
    So I sure do not err when I calll you: 'Princess I Am Blessed 17'.

    That was so much fun I'm going to say it again:


    Princess
    I Am Blessed 17




    Amen! :godisgood:
     
  12. Joe

    Joe
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ed you have done it again :laugh: :laugh: :applause: Very funny
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gal 5:13 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For brethren, ye haue beene called vnto liberty,
    onely vse not libertie for an occasion to the flesh,
    but by loue serue one another.


    Note that I carefully quoted Galations 5:13 which
    is right in front of my proof text Gal 5:14
    which says: "Thou shalt Love thy neighbor as thy self".

    Those of who have been here a few years know
    that I argue against 5-point Calvinism (rarely)
    and for OSAS = Once saved (by Jesus), Always
    Saved (by Jesus).
    But some people think that means: once saved
    (by myself), always saved (by myself) - but Galations 5:13
    blows that untruth right out of the water: Once Saved,
    Princes & Princesses must ACT LIKE ROYALTY!
    (I.E. NOT use thier liberity as an occastion to sin
    but as an ocassion to do good works. (I'll spare
    everybody the 'saved people do good works' series
    of sermons :) )
     
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you Prince Joe.

    Isn't it amazing how a spirt of thankfulness (the opposite of 'anger')
    can better one's serve?
     
  15. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very Good post Princess Scarlett O!


    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=esteem

    –verb (used with object)
    1. to regard highly or favorably; regard with respect or admiration: I esteem him for his honesty.
    2. to consider as of a certain value or of a certain type; regard: I esteem it worthless.
    3. Obsolete. to set a value on; appraise.
    –noun
    4. favorable opinion or judgment; respect or regard: to hold a person in esteem.
    5. Archaic. opinion or judgment; estimation; valuation.

    [Origin: 1400–50; late ME estemen, < MF estimer < L aestimāre to fix the value of]



    None of these seem to be bad, if you trust in Jesus to
    save you and not your 'good works'.

    //Romans 12:3 (no source listed, quoted from above),
    Do not think of yourselves more highly than you should.
    Instead, be modest in your thinking, and each one
    of you judge himself according to the amount of faith
    that God has given him."
    //

    This is saying that we need to /to set a value on'
    ourselves properly. If I'm saved, God's value on us is
    the Value He Sees Jesus have. Of course, we can
    & do sin - but we need still to /to set a value on'
    ourselves properly.

    1 Jn 1:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
    If we confesse our sinnes, hee is faithfull, & iust
    to forgiue vs our sinnes
    , and to cleanse vs
    from all vnrighteousnesse.

    People who judge me harshiy condemn me
    not for 'high self esteem' but

    1. agnostics judge me badly cause I beleive something, and they can't.
    2. athiests judge me badly cause I believe something, but it isn't
    what they beleive.

    Both damn (condemn) me for being a 'self-righteous hypocrite'.
    I always am telling that Jesus saves me, if I have any righteousness,
    it comes from Jesus, the Messiah.

    Here is where I think the anti-self esteem movement came from:


    Yep, I think "self esteem is evil" comes from the
    un-Fundamental that some believe their anti-success stance :(

    (Caveat: I described a shoe, if the shoe fits wear it.
    I put up a mirror in front of every body - ugly
    is in the eye of the beholder.)
     
    #15 Ed Edwards, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2007
  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Low esteem is where suicides come from, also depression, withdrawn, turning inward instead of outward to reach other people.

    No, high esteem is not pride. We must strive to be perfect, or how can we grow in the Lord.

    Low esteem is no good for anyone, yourself, your family or your friends, if you have any by thinking so low of your self.

    The Lord hates a proud look, but he does not want us to think of ourselves as being dumb, unproductive, unloved, completely alone in this world.

    That is not the message the God I serve wants you to think of yourself.

    Believe it or not, but you cannot help anyone else, if you don't take care of your self first. To teach people to look down on their selves is just plain wrong. Someone always feeling sorrow for themselves will drive others away.

    Raise up your heads, lift up your eyes, your redemption draweth nigh!!!

    I do not take "high esteem" to be this, in no way. Low esteem, is not any good for anyone. IMO
    You ever have to talk to a member trying to get them to think more highly of themselves, who were talking of suicide???

    BBob,
     
    #16 Brother Bob, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2007
  17. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,833
    Likes Received:
    114
    Very good. Fair and balanced.....
     
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    "lovers of their own selves"
    is better translated "selfish"


    Also note that the verse says:
    ... lovers of their own selves
    ...
    more than lovers of God'

    (there being no AND before 'lovers of pleasures
    - all items enumerated in 2 Timothy 3:2-4
    are compared by 'more' to 'than lovers of God'.)

    So if 'self esteem' = 'lovers of self'
    then we are commanded here to have
    self esteem less than we love God.

    Of course, none of the definitions of 'self esteem'
    mean we are to love self more than God.
     
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Consequences of Low Self-Esteem

    [SIZE=-1]Low self-esteem can have devastating consequences.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]It can create anxiety, stress, loneliness and increased likelihood for depression. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]It can cause problems with friendships and relationships. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]It can seriously impair academic and job performance. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]It can lead to underachievement and increased vulnerability to drug and alcohol abuse. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]Worst of all, these negative consequences themselves reinforce the negative self-image and can take a person into a downward spiral of lower and lower self-esteem and increasingly non-productive or even actively self-destructive behavior.[/SIZE]
     
  20. Joe

    Joe
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Absolutely :thumbs:
     

Share This Page

Loading...