Featured Seminary degrees and the call of God

heck, most of today's churches would not take on Peter as pastor if he had a convoy of angels attesting to his calling, with a handwritten note from Christ signed with His blood, IMHO.

they want pastors with training in "spiritual counselling", "soul-winning", "evangelism", humor and wit oozing out of them, clean-cut, non-tobacco smelling or spitting, soft and smooth hands with manicured fingernails, and an aura that says "well-educated" about him.

Peter and Paul would immediately fail the eyeball assesment part of the interview.
lol.

 

to be fair and honest, in my own denomination, I feel there are some PB's (even in our own congregation) who don't think I look elder-like enough....or maybe it's my accent.....or maybe I'm too large for them at 230 lbs....or my hands and knuckles have these karate callouses....lol

 

That is not a model for the church today, however. Those were extreme times. One could be arrested and held without trial, or even executed, just for being part of The Way Sect, as the Sanhedrin dubbed Christianity. When the church -- Body of Christ -- comes under such persecution anywhere in the world, and it won't be long, then will be the time to return to that model.

Yes, I believe there are men such as Tozer who were divinely equipped to preach and divide the word. Such men are, as you know, few and far between. The length of time required to become educationally qualified may vary from man to man, but is still -- in my opinion -- necessary. I believe you are correct in assuming the education necessary for first and second century pastors to assume their duties came directly from the apostles. Obviously we see Timothy selected and groomed by Paul, and he went on to become the pastor at Ephesus, taking to the pulpit in that church even before the apostle John held the post before his exile. Titus was also a protege of Paul's and had become a pastor late in Paul's ministry.

Onesimus, according to many church writers, having been freed by Philemon at Paul's request, went on to become a church leader by the early second century, and Clement did as well, having been associated with Paul. All, I am sure, benefited from their association and education under Paul.

Google "Jerry Johnston, Kansas City" and see how such an arrangement can consume a man and destroy his ministry.

 

I don't think it is. I was just point out that if we are going to treat 1st century precedence as equal to "thus saith the Lord" then we need to treat it all that way in order to be consistent.

 

In order to be consistent, we need to look at circumstance. That model was valid only in Jerusalem due to persecution. It is not the same model that Paul, John, Peter and others took out into the world.

 

Ok well you seem to miss the point and I do not know how to clear it up for you. Take care.

 

Actually, you're both missing my point. When it comes to preaching the gospel, the precedent has been set by the earthly ministry of Christ. There is no escaping the reality of how He taught the Word and trained the apostles to go out into the world. I'm not saying anything as childish as "thus saith the Lord, so it is always." But in this matter, the example of a formal education -- and He gave the apostles nothing less than that, as they did to their proteges -- is essential. That is why I commented on Rev's example of the communal nature of the Jerusalem church. It is not a model for every church since. It was necessary for that church at that time. I don't think you can apply that tenet to the necessity for education, however. What worked then works now. No one should attempt to pastor a church of any significant size without the training and calling to do so.

 

I think this is only 1 of the places where churches over-emphasize the outward. The others are age, experience, etc.

But concerning seminary degrees, i like the illustration of an axe. You can use a dull axe to chop trees down. But you can use a sharp axe with a whole lot more effectively. Seminary doesn't make the preacher, God does. But seminary can and does make a sharper axe for the Lord to use. I wish I had taken the time to go to seminary, but when i was in my early 30's i decided to go straight into ministry.

I am thankful that the churches I have pastored or served in, looked past my lack of a Masters or doctorate. But there are times when I know that I could serve them better had I stayed in school.

I said all that to say that I understand why churches want a pastor with a post graduate degree and won't judge them in any way.

 

D.L. Moody would disagree

 

Another exception, true. But as I said, they are few and far between. Jerry Johnston in Kansas City was one such man that everyone thought was "annointed by God to preach the word" but fell disastrously because, in the end, it turned out he was not. His teaching was sound. His lifestyle was carnal.

 

That is absurd. Education has nothing to do with those failures.

 

Really? Johnston insisted on being addressed as "Doctor" even though his degree was only honorary and he had but one year of bible college education from Liberty. Jerry Falwell was his mentor, and contributed to his grandiosity by flying in every few months and bolstering his ministry. I have to wonder, if Johnston had actually completed his education, would he have been so attracted to the flash and bling of life, or would he have genuinely devoted himself to ministering the gospel as well as he managed to portray?

 

Uh huh..............

 

Charles H. Spurgeon, prince of preachers never went to seminary. George Whitfield never went to seminary. Charles, and John Wesley never went to seminary. These are just a few that were called and anointed of God and taught by the Holy Spirit.

 

What part of "few and far between" do you not understand? The latest ministry of any of those you mentioned was Spurgeon, who died in 1892. That's pretty far from "common" wouldn't you agree?

 

I was an Elder in a local Assemblies of God for many years, before becoming a baptist, and just wonder if your church islike that, or if into word of faith, divine health/healings/miracles etc? Do you view the likes of hagin/Copeland/Hinn as teachers of God?

 

maybe argue the training Moody would, but NOT that a Pastor needs to have the Calling!

 

Doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

think that proves the truth that by far MOST important qualification is to be actually called of God to that vocation, and to be a person of prayer and moral integrity!

But higher education would still be good, if available!