Sen. Paul to DOE : My Toilets Don't Work 'And I Blame You'

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by mandym, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. mandym

    mandym
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    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who blamed a Department of Energy (DOE) official for his non-functioning toilet a month ago, sees new government efficiency standards as something out of an Ayn Rand novel.

    “You restrict my purchases, you don’t care about my choices, you don’t care about the consumer frankly, you raise the cost of the all the items with all your rules, all your notions that you know what’s best for me,” Paul said to DOE Deputy Secretary Kathleen Hogan at a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing on March 10th.


    http://cnsnews.cloud.clearpathhosting.com/news/article/sen-paul-doe-my-toilets-dont-work-and-i
     
  2. sag38

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    Good article. Too bad there are aren't more like Sen. Paul.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    Paul simply needs to buy better toilets.

    When I replaced the toilet in my home with a low-flow toilet about three years ago, I did a bit of research and bought a mid-priced model recommended by Consumer Reports. It does a fantastic job of flushing and I rarely have to reflush.

    I work for an engineering firm that has a specialty in wastewater treatment and I happen to know that the use of low-flow toilets is a much better use of water and resources than the old fashioned kind of toilet. All the water that passes through the sewer system has to be treated, so minimizing the excess water increases the efficiency of the plants, reduces the overall cost to citizens for infrastructure, and provides additional direct cost savings to those who actually purchase the low-flow toilets.

    It's a win-win situation for everyone except those who don't make good purchasing decisions because they don't do research or those who want to make political hay over foolishness like this.
     
  4. menageriekeeper

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    My low-flow toliet works just fine. And I didn't pay a whole lot for it, either.

    Find something else to complain about.
     
  5. preachinjesus

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    Maybe Senator Paul used substandard toilets in order to score cheap points politically?

    ::gasp::

    Or maybe he needs to eat less...;)
     
  6. sag38

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    The point is that the government has no right telling us what size toilet we have to use in our private homes along many other regulations that are highly expensive and invasive. Thank God the Cap and Trade legislation died in the Senate because toilet size only scrapes the surface of what that crappy legislation would have done to us.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

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    If you are connected to a public system, the government certainly has a right to say something about it and regulate it. It's not private when the water and waste leaves your property.

    The government even has a right to say something about your waste disposal even if you are not connected to a public system. Whatever you put onto or into the earth can potentially affect public water systems, both underground and above ground, well beyond your property.
     
  8. sag38

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    Thank you Comrade Baptist Believer for endorsing the United Communist Government of the United States.

    I just love liberals and their desire for the government to rule over every aspect of our lives from our toilet size to how we have to scrape paint.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

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    Ah, you can't dispute what I have said so you are resorting to desperate personal attacks instead of admitting that you may have not thought the issue all the way through or simply say that you don't agree.

    Communist? Hardly.

    And now you are trotting out the standard accusation of "liberalism" which so many people around here use when they don't know how to have a civil discussion.

    So in the space of a single post (not even responding to the points I made), you have falsely accused me of being a Communist and a liberal.

    That's very, very sad and profoundly sub-Christian.
     
  10. Robert Snow

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    Paul will use anything to keep his name in the news, especially now that he is thinking about running for president again, like he actually has a chance!

    I think he does it for the money he raises.
     
  11. JohnDeereFan

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    How about those of us with self contained septic systems? Why does the government have the right to tell us what kind of toilets we can have?
     
  12. Baptist Believer

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    In my opinion, as long as your septic system is working properly, it won’t contaminate the environment and that’s as far as the government regulation should extend on that side of it.

    Regarding the issue of the toilet, I think you can do whatever you want for your toilet as long as you are not connected to a public system or will pollute the environment (which affects others). However, if you are going to purchase a toilet, you will likely be constrained by the U.S. government’s requirement to only sell toilets that can be connected to a public system.

    You are free to make your own toilet or find a good used toilet and install it yourself.
     
  13. sag38

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    Dispute what? Toilet size has nothing to do with contaminating the environment. It has to do with the amount of water being used. And, I wasn't trying to insult you. I was merely stating fact. Your position reeks of liberalism. It's an accurate label.
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    You're conveniently ignoring the point that the government has the right to regulate things connected to a public system. Public infrastructure affects everyone. While libertarians, by definition, diminish the public interest in favor of individual liberties, most rational people understand that laws are important to uphold the public interest so that the individual rights of others are not compromised. There are tremendous societal advantages to having a modern pressurized potable water systems and efficient and sanitary wastewater treatment. We as a nation and individual communities have affirmed this. Because of this compelling public interest, it only stands to reason that there should be some reasonable regulation of items that affect the public system.

    That's part of it. It also has to do with wastewater treatment. Both the preparation of potable water and the treatment of wastewater cost communities hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Calling me a Communist was not intended to insult me? As someone whose mother's side of the family narrowly escaped summary execution by Communists on two different occasions, and someone who personally knows, understands, and rejects communist ideology, I found you false accusation profoundly insulting.

    Nope. It is simply the reality of the costs and issues surrounding potable water systems and wastewater systems.

    To call my position liberalism would put you in the same league as people who think that the preamble to the Constitution is "liberal" because it identifies that the purpose of the federal government includes promoting "the general welfare" of the citizens of the nation.
     
  15. mandym

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    So you are accusing libertarians of being irrational?
     
  16. Baptist Believer

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    No, not as a rule. Just so focused on their concern for individual liberties that they don't think through the social implications of their positions.

    I have found that if I sit down and have a conversation with people who profess to be libertarians and reason together about issues (rational), they either become much less "libertarian" in their outlook or get completely irrational and start the typical personal attacks against me.

    But that kind of behavior is not simply restricted to libertarians.
     
  17. mandym

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    Ok, you compared all "Libertarians" to "most rational people". So either you misspoke or your "not as a rule" claim makes no sense in light of it.

    Are you making the claim that because of this anecdotal experience all those who claim to be Libertarian:

    1. Never think through the social implications?
    2. Always change their mind when you show them the error of their ways?
    3. Or are always wanting to attack you when they do not want to see the error of they view based on your reasoning?

    Who else is it part of?
     
    #17 mandym, Apr 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2011
  18. sag38

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    To call my position liberalism would put you in the same league as people who think that the preamble to the Constitution is "liberal" because it identifies that the purpose of the federal government includes promoting "the general welfare" of the citizens of the nation.

    Promoting the general welfare is one thing. Over regulating at the expense of personal liberties is quite another. A point that liberals fail miserably to understand.
     
    #18 sag38, Apr 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2011
  19. Havensdad

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    That is a ridiculous statement. First, the Federal government only has the right to regulate those activities specifically delineated in the Constitution. Toilet size is not included.

    Second, telling me how much water can flow through my toilet, is absurd. The amount of water that I use at my house is my business, not the governments, particularly because I pay a water bill, as well as a sewer bill. If I want to use more water, and am willing to pay for it, again, it is none of the governments business. I am PAYING for a service...they are not dictators who get to run everyone's lives. I am guaranteed the right to "pursue happiness" by the constitution, which certainly includes what kind of toilet to buy, or to sell.

    Third, even if the government had some say in it, it would not be the FEDERAL government, but the LOCAL, CITY government. The feds have absolutely nothing to do with it (or shouldn't!). It is a City, county, and (perhaps) state issue.

    The idea that because something affects other people, that the government gets to tell you what you can or cannot do, make, sell, buy, or install, is absolutely a communist idea. EVERYTHING that you do affects someone else...does that mean that the government gets to regulate everything? Can they tell me what I get to eat, since my bodily functions might affect those around me? Do they get to tell me what I can drive, since some people are bothered by certain colors, or by the fact that they can't afford the kind of car I drive? Does the government get to tell me I can't preach about sin, because some are "offended"?

    Wake up, Mr. Khrushchev. This is America. We believe in freedom here. And that freedom includes picking your own toilet, even if it takes 50 gallons to flush.
     
  20. Arbo

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    A 50 gallon flush is a scary thought! :laugh:
     

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