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Senate negotiations on auto bailout break down

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by JustChristian, Dec 11, 2008.

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  1. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Senate negotiations on auto bailout break down
    News of a deal gave way to impasse; sticking point was union wage cuts
    The Associated Press
    updated 11:07 p.m. ET, Thurs., Dec. 11, 2008

    WASHINGTON - A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.

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    I can't believe the UAW thinks they are invulnerable. They're going to find out soon they are not and America is not.
     
    #1 JustChristian, Dec 11, 2008
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, President Bush will use some of the $700 billion Wall Street bailout funds to keep the auto companies alive until the new Congress takes office next month. I just looked at the Asian stock markets and the bottom has fallen out after this news.
     
    #2 KenH, Dec 11, 2008
  3. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    I believe we'll hit the first circuit breaker tomorrow for the first time. I hope everybody is in cash (or short).
     
    #3 JustChristian, Dec 11, 2008
  4. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Hopefully he won't.
     
    #4 carpro, Dec 11, 2008
  5. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Got any money in the stock market? If not maybe your pension plan does. The pension plans are already in bad shape. The estimate is that if GM goes down America loses 2.5M jobs. I don't know what it would mean if all three went down.

    As you might guess from my posts I don't think highly of US auto management. I think they've been extremely short sighted in putting so much of their future in gas guzzling SUV's. On the other hand, I think unions are one the US's real weaknesses when it comes to global competition. I can't believe the UAW members think they have the right to a job irregardless of the country's condition and that they aren't willing to take pay cuts to allow their company to survive. As I said, they will find out real soon that their jobs are going away and are not coming back.
     
    #5 JustChristian, Dec 11, 2008
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    And with those jobs a huge chunk of the U.S. economy. If the automakers go under, I will not be surprised at all to see the unemployment rate at 15% on this date in 2009.
     
    #6 KenH, Dec 11, 2008
  7. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    The treatment for cancer is sometimes debilitating, but can save one's life.
     
    #7 carpro, Dec 11, 2008
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Will you say that if you are one of the 15%?
     
    #8 KenH, Dec 11, 2008
  9. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    You bet.

    No one has ever guaranteed me a job nor a living wage.

    Ever.
     
    #9 carpro, Dec 11, 2008
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    May our Father protect you from having to make good on your bet.
     
    #10 KenH, Dec 11, 2008
  11. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Me either. And I've worked for almost 35 years as a professional watching the unions get better benefits and softer treatment when it came to downsizing. I believe there was a time for unions and that time is past.
     
    #11 JustChristian, Dec 11, 2008
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Our Father always takes care of me as He sees fit.

    I don't need your insincere prayers.
     
    #12 carpro, Dec 11, 2008
  13. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Agreed.

    And Ken, yes, the gas prices bit 'em in the hind quarters with their SUV's. But that's not the problem, IMO. The problem is in their other models. If you need a small car, what are you going to buy...a Toyota Corolla, or a Chevy Cobalt?

    Only one will be running in 10 years, and it ain't the Cobalt.

    Add greedy unions to that, add some clueless management, stir, bake at 350, and you have yourself a mess.
     
    #13 rbell, Dec 12, 2008
  14. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    It turns out the Treasury is going to provide short term aid. I agree, though, with what everything is saying here against both the management and unions. The management didn't lead the companies to build innovative new cars that people really wanted and needed and did everything they could to not comply with new fuel efficiency requirements.

    The unions are overpaid, get too many benefits, and their jobs are too secure for today's environment. We need to get rid of the union movement in the United States to be competitive.
     
    #14 JustChristian, Dec 12, 2008
  15. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    But that's the whole thing that ticks me off. The free market as our system is set up would handle the union problem. It's called Chapter 11 Reorganization. It would emasculate the unions' stranglehold.

    But instead, the cranial/rectal inversions otherwise known as Congress ruined the solution.

    And, they're creating another problem: you all remember Economics 101? (Congress doesn't)

    What happens when you just start printing money to make up for a shortfall?

    That's right, class...hyperinflation. Get ready.
     
    #15 rbell, Dec 12, 2008
  16. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Actually, the Congress (Senate) would have killed the bailout. The Bush appointees at Treasury and Bush himself stepped in to provide it.
     
    #16 JustChristian, Dec 12, 2008
  17. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Henry Paulson should go to jail.

    And appointing that moron may be the stupidest thing President Bush ever did.
     
    #17 rbell, Dec 12, 2008
  18. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Forgive me for posting this again, but from a closed bailout thread...

    If you ignore all other auto bailout posts...please look at this data:

    From Consumer Reports' 2009 buying guide: Car models 1998-2008:

    The "Best of the Best" in autos--out of 64 models listed:
    • 2 GM models listed.
    • 2 Ford models listed.
    • 0 Chrysler models listed.
    The "Worst of the Worst" in autos--out of 35 models listed:
    • 18 GM models listed.
    • 1 Ford model listed.
    • 2 Chrysler models listed.
    Why, oh why should we bail out a company making such inferior products?
     
    #18 rbell, Dec 12, 2008
  19. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Seems obvious to me that the Big 3 signed contracts with the UAW because at that time the 3 thought they could make money under the contract. Does anyone out there think the contracts were signed in order to have an excuse to lose money?
     
    #19 billwald, Dec 12, 2008
  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    But here's the real reason for the "bailout":

    Senator Demint hit the nail squarely on the head.
     
    #20 carpro, Dec 12, 2008
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