Separation of School and State

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Dragoon68, Sep 26, 2005.

  1. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    Just how did schools become part of the state? Why have we let local schools become an arm of our goverments at the city or district, state, and even federal level? Wouldn't we be better off is all schools were private schools in no way funded or operated by any branch of government?
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    The Washington State Constitution requires public schooling.
     
  3. Magnetic Poles

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    An educated populous is vital to a modern nation. I see the option of free, public education on the same level as other infrastructure, such as highways, water, and others.
     
  4. El_Guero

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    Dragoon,

    I doubt that privatized schools would be better than public. Both have pros and cons.

    I know that I would not have wanted to go to catholic school ...
     
  5. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    So be it in Washington.
     
  6. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    Should the populous be educated by the government according to what the government deems to be correct?

    Why do students do so poorly on average in government schools? Why do so many high school students not have excellent reading, writing, and math skills? Why do they know virtually knowing about Constitutional government?

    Public education is not free! It is very expensive - a major tax burden - because of the "handling fees" extracted by the bureaucrats that run it, the vast number of mandated programs, and the general lack of accountability to those it serves.
     
  7. Dragoon68

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    Why then do students who attend private schools or are home schooled do relatively well compared to those who attend government schools?

    Who says they have to be Catholic schools to be private schools?
     
  8. poncho

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    I figure the concept is known as coercion in sort of a broad definition, blackmail would be more discriptive however Dragoon.
     
  9. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    Why do parents who have children who want to learn have to put up with class rooms full of those who don't?

    Why do parents have to pay teachers and administrators to teach "junk" they don't need or want?

    Why do some government schools even have to have their own law enforcement departments?

    Just what is so great about this system of government schools upon which we've become so dependent?
     
  10. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    I figure the concept is known as coercion in sort of a broad definition, blackmail would be more descriptive however Dragoon. </font>[/QUOTE]That's a bit how I see it! You (the government school) offer "free" education to "all" so that the "poor" can have "opportunity". You decide what will be and what won't be taught. You fill the ranks of teachers and administrators with those who'll teach and administer the way you want. You keep raising property taxes to fund every sort of program possible for that "free" education whether it has any application to earning a living - "opportunity" - or not. You spend large amounts on facilities and programs that provide "opportunity" for only a small number and "entertainment" for others. You do little, if anything, to equip the average child with the basic knowledge and skills they'll likely need to earn a living. You then start teaching "values", "diversity", "ethics", "culture", "tolerance", etc. but not religion unless of course it's "religious appreciation" of non Christians. You're no longer providing "opportunity" - you're molding the thoughts of your subjects according to your views. You've taken over the role of the parent and the role of the Church.
     
  11. poncho

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    I figure the concept is known as coercion in sort of a broad definition, blackmail would be more descriptive however Dragoon. </font>[/QUOTE]That's a bit how I see it! You (the government school) offer "free" education to "all" so that the "poor" can have "opportunity". You decide what will be and what won't be taught. You fill the ranks of teachers and administrators with those who'll teach and administer the way you want. You keep raising property taxes to fund every sort of program possible for that "free" education whether it has any application to earning a living - "opportunity" - or not. You spend large amounts on facilities and programs that provide "opportunity" for only a small number and "entertainment" for others. You do little, if anything, to equip the average child with the basic knowledge and skills they'll likely need to earn a living. You then start teaching "values", "diversity", "ethics", "culture", "tolerance", etc. but not religion unless of course it's "religious appreciation" of non Christians. You're no longer providing "opportunity" - you're molding the thoughts of your subjects according to your views. You've taken over the role of the parent and the role of the Church. </font>[/QUOTE]Sure enough, luckily for leviathan we have a convenient whipping boy in the form of liberalism to blame. ;)
     
  12. Johnv

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    Public schools have always been an arm of the state.
    There are good pupblic schools, and bad ones. There are likewise good private schools and bad ones. Since no one is required to send their kids to public school, the notion of whether or not everyopne would be better off with fully privatized education is debatable at best. I'd like to think so, but that's based purely on my own subjectivity.
    Part of it is due to the fact that a greater number of affuent people is represented in the private school populus, due simply to the fact that private schools costs the parent 4000 and up per year.
     
  13. buckster75

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    vouchers
     
  14. Dragoon68

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    Public schools have always been an arm of the state.</font>[/QUOTE]Just how did "schools" - not "public schools" - become part of the state?

    Part of it is due to the fact that a greater number of [affluent] people is represented in the private school [populous], due simply to the fact that private schools costs the parent 4000 and up per year. </font>[/QUOTE]Is greater learning ability of a child related to having affluent parents? Are "rich kids" smarter than "poor kids"?

    How much does public school really cost? Consider not only the property taxes paid to the local city or district schools but also the additional state and federal taxes to fund a wide assortment of government agencies to "oversee" public education and the ever increasing cost of books, supplies, and fees to cover items once provided "free" by the state.

    How much of the cost we pay really goes toward the end meaningful and useful education?

    Are private schools more "expensive" because public - government - schools have a mandated supply of both students and funding? Couldn't private schools compete in a fair market of supply and demand?
     
  15. Dragoon68

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    Why can discipline not be maintained in government schools? Why must students who can not behave be retained to disturb others?
     
  16. Dragoon68

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    Why must children of illegal aliens be enrolled in government schools?
     
  17. Magnetic Poles

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    Should the populous be educated by the government according to what the government deems to be correct?

    Why do students do so poorly on average in government schools? Why do so many high school students not have excellent reading, writing, and math skills? Why do they know virtually knowing about Constitutional government?

    Public education is not free! It is very expensive - a major tax burden - because of the "handling fees" extracted by the bureaucrats that run it, the vast number of mandated programs, and the general lack of accountability to those it serves.
    </font>[/QUOTE]There are no doubt problems with the current education system, but don't throw the baby out with the proverbial bathwater. Curriculae are set by school boards and state education departments who are accountable to the public. If you choose to opt out of the system, you are free to do that, or work to improve public education.
     
  18. Dragoon68

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    The "baby" has grown into a "monster" that breeds ignorance and dependence upon government - not intelligence and ability to provide for one's self. Its curricula is self perpetuating. It does not meet the needs of its consumers.

    No one is free to "opt out" of a system they have to fund with taxes regardless! Why don't we give people the option to fund either government or private schools but not both? Let's see which system would get the most money.

    Let's work to get rid of government schools altogether. That would be the best improvement to public education we could make. Let's see if private schools - at a level very close to home free from federal and state control - would be accountable to the users of their services.
     
  19. Dragoon68

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    Why do we need a federal Dept. of Education? What do they know that we don't much closer to home? Are their goals the same as ours?
     
  20. Dragoon68

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    How many employers can be comfortable that a high school, or even college, dimploma from a government school truly certifies that a potential employee has the basic knowledge and skills to function in the work place?
     

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