Featured Seventh Day Adv.

Well, I would agree she failed, but as you can see, or will see when Bob gets back, is they have an end round on this also. If one is determined to believe a lie, what else can you do for them? Outside of a "road to Damascus" experience, most will continue on deceived.

 

Messianic Jews will never return to Worship on Sundays.

Do you think they are cult?


Please remember there have been all the time Sabbathkeepers before Ellen White.

 

In fact the Seventh-day Baptists are the one's that significantly promoted the idea of keeping the 4th Commandment to Adventists. And when that happened they were dealing primarily with an Adventist sea Captain by the name of Joseph Bates. He in turn mentioned the subject to James and Ellen White who were not at all inclined to accept that teaching on the Ten Commandments. But within less than a year of Bible study on the subject - they accepted what the Bible had to say on the matter.

in Christ,

Bob

 

If you will notice - I never promote Ellen White on the BaptistBoard.

I promote the Bible doctrines that would need to be accepted first.

It is the Seventh-day Adventist position that not ONLY are there saved saints among non-SDA evangelical groups - but so also among Catholics and Jews, and even those who have never heard of the Bible.

You are simply barking up the wrong tree.

Our view of what groups contain saved saints is broader than what you will often find among many Evangelicals. (Comes in handy when dealing with some Calvinist arguments.)

If you were going to attack the Adventists on anything in regard to that subject - it would be that they are too inclusive.

You need an updated playbook - with improved accuracy - and I can help you get there.:thumbs:

in Christ,

Bob

 

Bob, do SDA still believe in "soul sleep"?

 

Yes.

1Thess 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Which means that our dead cannot hear us - cannot minister to us - because their soul is in a dormant state of sleep. Should we go to the dead for help, counsel etc we would be going against Isaiah 8:19 and open the door for an imposter to step in - in our attempts to contact the dead.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You kinda changed the subject. Your questions are not pointed towards my post that EGW is not a prophet.

As far as your questions about Sabbathkeepers, God speed to them, they have liberty to gather together for corporate worship or rest anytime they desire. The only time it would present a problem is if an individual or a group would proclaim that it is a MUST DO in order to be a true or obedient to Christ Christian.

And, if they be weak in the faith and abstain from eating certain foods, God speed again! They should not partake, but, don't tell the strong in faith that they will be condemned or that they are being disobedient for partaking.

 

Do you regard her as a being of God, an inspired prophetess?

can one be saved apart from received jesus as Saviour and lord?

Must one keep the Sabbath and all OT laws in order to either get or keep salvation?

do you regard yourselfs as that faithful remnant true NT church God has preserved for end times still?

 

So then in your view - R.C Sproul, D.L. Moody, Spurgeon, Andy Stanley, et al - are on solid ground when they insist that all TEN of the Ten Commandments are still valid and apply to all mankind - even Christians?

in Christ,

Bob

 

Absolutely - yes!

No one can be saved apart from Jesus.

But the gentile in Romans 2:13-16 has no Bible and knows nothing about the Gospel as we would call it today. He has only the knowledge similar to that of those who are saved in Romans 10.

"To him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17.

I am one of those who thinks James was right in that regard.

You may be as well.

The true remnant of Revelation 12 that survived the 1260 years of dark ages persecution after the time of Christ - is not "A person" it is a group, a movement.

And in Rev 14:12 the saints are those who "Keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".

Which is why in 1Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" as does John in 1John 5:2.

I consider myself to be in that group.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I'm not certain, but I believe these men you cite all corporately worship on Sunday. So i'm not sure what your objection is.

 

No objection.

I am pointing out that they all affirm the continued validity of the Ten Commandments and that they apply to all mankind - and all Christians still to this day.

It appeared from one of your posts that you thought only Sabbath keeping Christians believed that about the 4th commandment still being valid.

in Christ,

Bob

 

NONE of them cited hold to the Sabbath being for the Church though, and ALL would say that we uphold the law of God by walking in the HS,a s he will empower us to live for God as he intends!

Do you still hold to a mixture of Grace and law? saved by grace, but must keep the law, including Sabbath, dietary laws etc in order to maintain it?

 

Depends on if by "Sabbath" you mean the 4th commandment.

They all insist that the 4th commandment applies to the church today.

I think both sides the fence would make that claim.

I hold to the teaching of the Bible include the teachings of Paul - paying close attention to Romans 6 and 1Cor 6 and Romans 2:11-13.

Don't you also?

1 Cor 6:
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Romans 2:


6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 3:
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"


1John 5:2 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

Rev 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

TEN Commandments - Comm #2.

Ex 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14:15 - "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

And of course R.C Sproul, Andy Stanley, D.L Moody, CH Spurgeon, and many of the Sabbath keeping Christian groups as well would all agree with these texts. For all of us know that the moral law of God - includes the TEN Commandments and is written on the mind and heart of the born again saint under the New Covenant.

1 John 2
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.




Romans 6


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


in Christ,

Bob

 

Again, NONE of them have the sabbath for the Church, that we are obligated to keep Saturday!

Nor do they hold to MUST keepp the law in order to either get or keep saved, thatwould be Judaizing the Gospel!

And YOUhold up Ellen White to have been a prophetess, that those who refuse the sabbath receive mark of the beast, and that you cannot know if really saved until go thru tht "investigative jusgement" after you die?

 

Those men argue that they have the Sabbath even though they do not keep it as God gave it - because they believe that God's law can be edited via the traditions of man - contrary to what Christ taught in Mark 7.

I differ with them at that point.

But on the other points we agree.

None of them hold that someone living in rebellion against God and claiming to be a saved Christian is telling the truth.

John also rejects that idea in 1John 2.

In fact Andy Stanley's sermon on the Ten Commandments has this in it about the 3rd commandment. He says it is a form of taking God's name in vain to come up with some excuse for not keeping one of the commandments and then claiming that God is telling you to do it.

Indeed I do - but you did not ask me to list a bunch of people that are also Seventh-day Adventists. And that is not what I was doing when I mentioned those names.

Interesting fiction.

Now for some facts.

1. Ellen White stated that no one - no not even Sunday Keeping Christians have the Mark of the Beast.

2. There is no statement at all in the Adventist church about "not knowing if you are really saved until you go through the judgment". The assurance of salvation is for today.

Where you may be confused is that the Seventh-day Adventist church is not Calvinist - and your understanding of the Arminian view appears to lack some accuracy.

in Christ,

Bob

 

what 'revelation" did God grant to her in additional to that of the bible for the SDA?

Do you hold that we must keep the law of the OT in order to be saved?

Do you hold to saved by grace alone, thru faith alone?

if a SDA rejects ellen white as a prophetess and sabbath as binding, will they be saved?

 

God gave her dreams and visions about a great many things - just as HE claimed that He gave dreams and visions to Aaron and Miriam in Numbers 12:6. And just as he gave dreams and visions to those in the NT church of Corinth where "each one has a revelation" 1Cor 14:24-26 and as we see in the case or Anna, and Agabus, and Philips daughters in the NT.

Many prophets in the Bible - who write not one sentence of scripture.

I hold that a lost person must accept Christ as Savior to be saved.

I hold that a Christian must read and accept what the Bible says about rebellion against God after becoming a Christian. If you would like to have those texts posted again -- let me know. Steaver and I love to re-post Bible texts.

I hold to the Bible. IN James 2 we find the only "by faith alone" statement in the Bible. Have you read it?

But in Eph 2 we have the Bible fact "By GRACE are you saved through faith and that not of works lest anyone should boast".

But we are not all stuck at the point of being lost. Many of us have gone beyond that - be become saved - and for the saved we have things like Christ's sermon in Matt 7 and in Matt 10 - which goes far beyond asking the lost person to repent from being lost.

Some SDAs (usually new ones) have not yet studied through the writings of Ellen White to know if she was a true prophet or not. There is nothing in the SDA church saying that such people are lost.

All SDAs that I know have at a bare minimum the acceptance of the Ten Commandments that CH Spurgeon, R.C Sproul, Andy Stanley, D.L Moody, etc all have where they know that the Ten Commandments are binding on all the world including all Christians and that the TEN commandments include the 4th commandment. I have yet to meet one that has not figured that out yet.

Are there some others that you have met?

in Christ,

Bob

 

Her revealtions are addition tot he scriptures, are NOT of the lord though, as God ceased opearting in prophetic offices since john died!

And you seem to be implieing that God accepts us based upon ignornace of what she and the SDA really hold as doctrines, same waycatholic say we are forgiven due to us being ignorant!

WHAT is the basis for beig saved by God? the Cross of jesus and nothing, or abiding to keep the law, honoring the prophetess. keeping Sabbath etc?

For NOTHING can add to the cross, but by adding to it, you have another gospel!

 

Well that is interesting speculation on your part.

Did you have an actual Bible text for it??

Or is this just some guesswork on your part?

If it is just guesswork then no problem - you are welcomed to it.

But if the Bible said "the 1Cor 12 gifts will die with John" then point us to the text.

Because until you do that - we have Eph 4:4-10 telling us that the gifts go until the 2nd coming.

in Christ,

Bob