Sexual Abstinence

Hi Teresa. Thank you for your comments. I was thinking more in terms of those other than spouses or truly potential spouses. For example, I think it is inappropriate for church members of the opposite sex to discuss sexuality matters with each other. A man should not discuss this topic with a woman at his church, and a woman should not discuss this topic with a man at her church - other than in the most broad and general Biblical sense without even a hint of “saltiness” (if that’s even possible).

Of course, a husband and wife can discuss such things between themselves in a totally unfettered and unambiguous manner.

Nevertheless, your point raises an interesting question. IF a young man or woman is NOT a “virgin” should they discuss this with someone of the opposite sex that is positively “spouse” potential? Perhaps! Should they do so with someone they have “just met” or in the early stages of a romance? I think no.

I say this because those undergoing the “courting” process are likely to encounter some measure of romantic interest (1 Cor. 7: 8-9). Indeed, this is one of the pre-requisites to actual marriage! However, this behavior is only understandable in those extremely limited instances where the young man and woman are truly “courting.” Such interest on a “first or few dates” is perhaps best avoided. Accordingly, the discussion of such things in “first date” type scenarios is better to avoid as well.

There is no record in the Bible of Joseph & Mary discussing intimacy matters during their courtship. If fact, the Bible illustrates that Joseph kept related thoughts of these things to himself (Matt. 1: 19-20). Jesus himself did NOT discuss anything about himself when confronting sexual conduct outside of marriage in John 8: 3-11. Boaz & Ruth did not discuss their own “sexuality” with each other during the courting process (Ruth 2 and the entire book). The Apostle Paul did seem to touch on his own situation, and that commentary was exceedingly brief, non-descript, and totally void of puffery (1 Cor. 7: 7-8).

Why would a Christian make any public profession about their personal intimacies at all? Is this done as a witness tool? Fine, then discuss it privately with the person you are witnessing with (man witnessing to man – woman witnessing to woman on this subject). Public announcements of such things in the personal mode tends to suggest what is described in Matt. 6: 2. Furthermore, I've seen men "witnessing" to woman on this topic for reasons that were other than Christian love (hustling, exploiting, and taking advantage of them might be a better description of what these men were doing).

Virginity until marriage is a glorious GIFT from GOD that would ideally be given to all. To convert such a gift into an “asset” or tool of self-promotion is obviously un-Biblical and such expressions should be avoided. Our Christian witness is not about lifting ourselves up – it’s about lifting up the Gospel message. We should be building UP those who do not know the truth – not tearing them down.

Since Jesus did not mention anything about his own situation on this topic (not once) then why should any of us?

latterrain77

 

Meet two more who waited--MtnWalker and I.
We had both had two children and been
widowed, so we were not the proverbial "babes
in the woods." We used our dating opportunities
to get to know one another and to discuss. And
yes, the subject of sexuality was one of the
subjects.

I made it clear to him at the beginning that I
would do nothing, and I mean nothing
outside of marriage, because I had dated a few
"Christian" "men" before him who, shall I say,
were persistent, and I was sick of them and of
fighting them off.

My synagogue is Heavy on entering the
marriage contract as virgins. It is preached
both from the pulpit and the wedding cere-
mony.

Also, a lot of assumptions are made regarding
the marriages of the ancients--that they just
kind of went off together, and that formed a
marriage. Not so. Our Lord was very much into
weddings. In His time on earth, He attended
weddings, and He planned our eternity to begin
with a wedding.

Weddings then were a big deal. They were
planned for months ahead of time. It would
probably be a good idea to look up ancient
Jewish wedding information: there are so many
parallels between their weddings and our
future that it is amazing. If you get a chance,
attend a Messianic (real Messsianic) or a Jewish
wedding--some will be amazed.

[ October 22, 2002, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

Furthermore, a woman should refrain from discussing such things with a man and a man should refrain from discussing such things with a woman (unless in the most general of Biblical terms). Isn’t it better to leave specific personal details un-said?

Uhhh... no. You have a responsibility to tell your partner to a resonably full extent what they're getting into with you. Likewise, your partner has the same responsibility to you.

 

I don't think that would be very honest. And the questions does arise in most cases. Part of a marriage is trust and being able to tell your spouse detail of your life before they entered into it. Things are so bad these days that if people are not honest about it they could end up with STDs or even worse things.Love in Christ Angie

 

Hi Johnv. Thank you for your comments. Yes, I agree with you provided the ones doing such discussing have a SERIOUS Christian romance (i.e. truly potential marriage) going on (see my previous post).

In my humble judgment, discussions about “sexuality” should NOT take place at all between “church members” of the opposite sex (a practice sometimes initiated as supposed congregation topic discussion). What would be the point in "church members" of the opposite sexes (men & women) discussing such things together? Thank you again Johnv.

latterrain77

[ October 22, 2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: latterrain77 ]

 

My wife and I were married at baptist church in Camberwell by the then President of the Baptist Union The Rev.Hadden.It was 7th dec 1963 These were the times when it was optional for the bride to say LOVE HONOUR AND OBEY to her husband,my wife would not say obey.but it seems that over the past 39 years I have many times.Anyway to get to the point, we were both Christians when we met and, it just did not seem right so I did not try anything.I found out later that it was just as well because it would have been see you later. In Australia in 1963 there was no pill,to live with a person before marriage was not done,forget it this would be a fantasy.Divorce was not a common thing.We were also to scared

 

Ahh that is so precious! And the way I think it should be done! God Bless, love in Christ Angie

 

I've been debated on whether or not to say anything, but I've decided that it is better to give information here than withhold it.

Here's a passage from Ruth 2:

1   Then Naomi her mother-in-law said to her, "My daughter, shall I not seek security for you, that it may be well with you?
2   "Now is not Boaz our kinsman, with whose maids you were? Behold, he winnows barley at the threshing floor tonight.
3   "Wash yourself therefore, and anoint yourself and put on your best clothes, and go down to the threshing floor; but do not make yourself known to the man until he has finished eating and drinking.
4   "It shall be when he lies down, that you shall notice the place where he lies, and you shall go and uncover his feet and lie down; then he will tell you what you shall do."
5   She said to her, " All that you say I will do."
6   So she went down to the threshing floor and did according to all that her mother-in-law had commanded her.
7   When Boaz had eaten and drunk and his heart was merry, he went to lie down at the end of the heap of grain; and she came secretly, and uncovered his feet and lay down.
8   It happened in the middle of the night that the man was startled and bent forward; and behold, a woman was lying at his feet.
9   He said, "Who are you?" And she answered, "I am Ruth your maid. So spread your covering over your maid, for you are a close relative."
10   Then he said, "May you be blessed of the LORD, my daughter. You have shown your last kindness to be better than the first by not going after young men, whether poor or rich.
11   "Now, my daughter, do not fear. I will do for you whatever you ask, for all my people in the city know that you are a woman of excellence.
12   "Now it is true I am a close relative; however, there is a relative closer than I.
13   "Remain this night, and when morning comes, if he will redeem you, good; let him redeem you. But if he does not wish to redeem you, then I will redeem you, as the LORD lives. Lie down until morning."
14   So she lay at his feet until morning and rose before one could recognize another; and he said, "Let it not be known that the woman came to the threshing floor."


The word "foot" or "feet" is often used as a euphemism for sexual organs in the Old Testament. What seems to be happening here is that Ruth is laying claim to marriage rights by uncovering Boaz's male member.

1.) This is not an argument for sex before marriage.
2.) This apparently was part of the custom of the day.
3.) I'm not making this up. Check commentaries and do a word study of the Old Testament to see how the terms "feet", "hand" and "thigh" are often used in place of sexual organs.

 

So does that mean she was lying on his male membor as well

 

The word "feet" in this passage is the Hebrew word " marg@lah ", mar-ghel-aw'. It means (plural for collective) a footpiece, i.e. (adverbially) at the foot, or (direct.) the foot itself:--feet.

This word is used (5)times in the Old Testament. All (5) times it is translated "feet." I think we can take this passage literally that Ruth uncovered Boaz's feet.

 

What you say is true, but it was not what we now
call premarital sex. She had a legal right, under
the Law, to be his wife, and she was offering
herself to him as such.

You're a smart lady, Teresa!

 

Who is Teresa?

 

I'm not disputing what word is used... just what it meant in the context of the time. It is a euphemism.

 

Oh, Baptist Believer! Please forgive me! This
is not the first time I have seen your tag and
confused you with Baptist Forever, who is
Teresa! I am so sorry!

And thank your for your last post, too. These
things are so often ignored.

Have you considered Esther?

 

This is a referrel to page one of this subject--

BLACKBIRD AND HIS WIFE WAITED!!

BLACKBIRD AND HIS WIFE WAITED!!

BLACKBIRD AND HIS WIFE WAITED!!

OOOOHHHHH!! And I'll never have to know the shame of not waiting!!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

Don't worry, Abiyah...I get those two mixed-up also! Must be an age thing! hahaha

Even tho' we only knew each other 3 weeks before we tied the knot, the granny and her fellar (of nearly 40yrs) waited too!

 

No sex, please. I'm British!

In the early days, In England, it was improper to even mention ladies pants (undergarments) in mixed company. Needless to say, we did not discuss sexual relations either.

This backdrop made it difficult for me to preach about sex as a sermon topic, even to this day. I think it took about ten years of ministry for me to even casually hint about sexual purity before marriage in counselling sessions.

To-day, I might attend to the local high school to get all there is to know about sex. Fifteen year olds are freely engaging in the act, and this includes those who profess faith in the Lord Jesus. I am speaking for the scene in Canada and cannot speak for the USA.

My last pastoral ministry was in a university setting. Sexual freedom is very much a topic under discussion. I got up the courage to preach about sexual purity directly related to a pure soul before God and five people walked out. This in a most modern and expressive congregation.

Yes, I think more must be done from the pulpit. More direct counselling must be done before marriage. More must be done to counteract what is being taught our youth in high school and even our public schools. Yea, more must be taught at home.

Be true to yourself, and in so being, one will be true to God and pure in mind and spirit. Far too many to-day view the act of sex as the beginning rather than the culmination of extreme love and devotion. Too many young people have engaged in sexual relations and come away disappointed. They carry this often into the marriage bed and end up, if fortunate, in a counsellors office.

Thank God for those who will dare to make known the joys of love. Too many of us old fellows believed the mechanics were as natural as sleeping and overlooked the teaching.

Cheers,

Jim

 

We waited too!!
Tater