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Discussion in 'Politics' started by Rufus_1611, Jun 1, 2007.
F-4 vs Concrete Wall - Video
Please understand that there's considerable difference between the test barrier - an especially constructed wall to prove out the survivability of nuclear reactor containment buildings - and the ordinary exterior walls of the Pentagon - simply designed to protect the occupants from the weather and provide reasonable structural support. A willing participant could perhaps try it with their automobile if they need convincing and would like to personally experience the difference.
True, and is a point Sgt Buswell made in his email response.
Have you seen a copy of SGT Buswell's e-mail? What did he say and to whom did he say it?
As taken from the second article in the OP and in response to an e-mail sent by Anderson, Larry Mr JMC...
I don't know, man, I just don't buy this conspiracy stuff, and I like reading spy novels.
I was wondering if anyone had the full e-mail thread or just this extract in the article? I always prefer to see original sources if possible.
Fair enough...does his 20 years of service to his nation and decorations make him a patriot or is the asking of questions and suggestion of 'being had' worthy of demotion and being considered disloyal to the United States?
I meant to throw in this article as well in the OP...
Yes, but he seems to go beyond that to suggest that no parts were found. I seem to recall that very identifiable parts were found inside the building against the inner wall.
I lean that way myself but I'm also a curious person.
Being a wounded veteran does not prevent one from being taken in by conspiracy theories.
So be it...is he a Patriot or a Traitor? Was he worthy of being demoted?
"Shanksville PA would have had debris, and a large derbis field; it didn't." -- excerpt from Rufus1611 citing FC Buswell's e-mail.
The nature of the ground in which United Flight 93 crashed on 9/11 was very spongy, due in part to a lot of coal mining that goes on in that area.
I, for one, am very proud of the stand that the crew and passengers aboard Flight 93 took on that tragic morning!
Instead of crashing into some building(s) in Washington DC (or wherever the terrorists had intended), it landed in a remote field and killed no one on the ground.
Had it crashed a couple seconds sooner than it did, Flight 93 would have crashed right into a school building holding hundreds of children in K-12 grades.
Those people aboard Flight 93 were the first Americans to take a stand against the 9-11 terrorists---and the Americans won! :thumbs:
God bless the memory of those brave people and their surviving families! :applause:
The answer could be "yes" to both points. It depends on what he actually did or didn't do. His prior service has no factual bearing on his subsequent conduct but it certainly does not detract from his previously demonstrated character. I need more information - who, what, when, where, and why - to have much of an opinion about the charges. What are the specifc charges? What is the evidence? What is the defense? That, of course, is what the justice system will explore and resolve.
The "justice system" has already resolved it. For the email that Sgt Buswell authored, he was charged with conduct disloyal to the United States, the penalty of which was the stripping of his security clearance, demotion and subjection to a mental health exam. Based on the information provided in the three articles and based on the premise that we have no information suggesting that the parties involved are disputing the information provided, what is your opinion about this Sergeant and his actions? Is he a traitor or a patriot?
Okay, sorry, I'm catching up now! (I'm trying to multitask to many issues at once today!) Here's the crux of what probably got him into trouble:"I say Occums razor is the best way to deduce this ‘day of infamy’; if you weigh all options, do some simple studying you will see 911 was clearly not executed by some arabs in caves with cell phones and 3 day old newspapers! I mean how are Arabs benefiting from pulling off 911? They have more war, more death and dismal conditions, so, how did 911 benefit them? Answer: It didn’t. So, who benefited from 9-11? The answer is sad, but simple; The Military Industial [sic] Complex.
It’s not a paranoid conspiracy to think there are conspiracies out there...and, it’s not Liberal Lunacy either, nor is it Conservative Kookiness! People, fellow citizens we’ve been had! We must demand a new independent investigation into 911 and look at all options of that day, and all plausabilities [sic], even the most incredulous theories must be examined."
Reading this makes me immediately lean towards "guilty as charged"! SGT Buswell seems to have jumped right into the 9/11 conspirarcy theory world!
Servicen people aren't allowed to question orders, or speak bad about their higher-ups. They are not civilians, and civilian law does not cover them. Speaking out is reason for demotion. Read the Uniform Code of Military Justice, because folks who haven't served usually have no idea of the oath one takes, and the papers they sign.
It looks something like this right?...
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Source: http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,13898,rec_step08_swearing_in,,00.html)
What is a military enlistee or officers obligation, if the two primary components of that oath (allegiance to the Constitution and obedience to superiors) conflict?
Being taken in by a conspiracy theory neither makes him a traitor nor a patriot.
He used a government email account to spread conspiracy theories and draw conclusions beyond his paygrade. Some form of discipline is in order.
BTW Disloyalty and treason are not one and the same.
Actually, there's more than that. That isn't the only paper you sign to get in.
You just are not allowed to question orders, or make derogitory remarks to the commander & chief, or you will lose stripes, give up R&R, and most likely get fined. That's the way it is. Also, it is the serviceperson's obligation to prove himself innocent in article 15 cases, which is where most military justice occurrs. In courts-martial cases, you are appointed representation, which is usually your division officer, who probably had a lot to do with the charges brought against you.
carpro nailed it. He is 100% correct.