Shall there be evil in a city and the Lord hath not done it?

oops voted yes but meant to vote no....

 

Let them know that all their troubles came from the hand of God’s providence and from the counsel of his will (v. 6): Shall there be evil in a city, in a family, in a nation, and the Lord has not done it, appointed it, and performed what he appointed? The evil of sin is from ourselves; it is our own doing. But the evil of trouble, personal or public, is from God, and is his doing; whoever are the instruments, God is the principal agent. Out of his mouth both evil and good proceed. This consideration, that, whatever evil is in the city, the Lord has done it, should engage us patiently to bear our share in public calamities and to study to answer God’s intention in them.

-- Matthew Smith

 

Thank you Dr. Griffin.

I need a sovereign Heavenly Father.



Dave

 

Oh, great, so now you're saying God is evil, Mark? After what you posted on the Holocaust thread, why am I surprised? and the first time I posted you accused me of being a blasphemer!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

I'm not sure I understand the logic here:

"God is sovereign."

"So God causes evil things to happen."

"No, God lets them happen."

"So, God could stop them if God wanted to but doesn't."

"Yes."

"So God is evil?"

"No."

Huh?

Part of the message of the cross for me is that God is also a victim of the brokenness of the world. Otherwise, God comes across as a sadistic maniac.

Joshua

 

no, he's just quoting the bible.
but understand evil can mean trouble or tribulation...

 

Mark,

I accept that God allows evil - otherwise it wouldn't happen - but to say that He is the author of that evil is something else.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Certainly God is sovereign. That is a given. But I don’t believe that God allows... in the sense that He gives permission. But he does let it happen.

The Jewish mindset would see that everything comes from God. But our Amercian mindset is more of a Greek philosophy. I think that is where the problem lies.

We cannot not so clearly define a line between man’s responsibility and God’s sovereignty. Regarding Pharoah: If there were not the confrontation there would have not been the rebellion. The confrontation is by God. In that sense it comes from God.


The message is that God wants us to glorify Him and when we don't, we get the consequences of that wrong.

One of our responsibilities comes from Ro 10:11-15 "For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!"

 

That God is sovereign over both good and evil seems abundantly clear from Scripture (in addition to the Amos passage, cf. Isaiah 45:7; Lamentations 3:37-38; Job 2:10; Ecclesiastes 7:14). He uses both for His purposes (Proverbs 16:4). Although God does not stand behind evil in the same way He stands behind good, He is sovereign over both. After all, if the Lord is not in full control, why bother praying to Him? He would be a very undependable God if in fact He had no influence over evil.

 

As Ahab said in Moby-Dick (excerpted from a current thread on Ishmail about the possible moral imperative to challenge God:

Haruo

 

The way that I always understood it, is this.
God is the author of Good. Satan is the author of evil. God *allows" evil, as it can be used as a lesson later, or turned for good.

 

Hmmm… I don’t know if anyone actually disagrees with Amos, they just disagree regarding the meaning and application of Amos’ words.

The verse in question comes immediately after a quick series of six questions that affirm that Israel is being judged. Amos tells his hearers that the calamity coming upon them is most certainly from God because of their covenant relationship with Him.

Wrenching that verse from the context of this specific judgment is a poor way to build a theology.

 

Everything that happens is dependent on not only the will of God but his active hand from the very great to the very minute detail. From the tornado, to the spring raing, from the famine to the single blade of grass that is pushed up from the ground by the finger of God. And everything else in between.

As Paul said in the book of Acts

In him (God the creator) we live and move and have our very being.

Were there no God there would be nothing. Were God not actively involved in all things chaos would ensue.

Some would argue that the earth is like a clock or some other machine that God wound up way back when and let it go. This reminds me of a news clip I read about a man who bought a new Winnebago and started home down the freeway in California. Feeling drowsy he set the cruise control and went in the back to take a nap. In short order he and his new Winnebago crashed and burned because like the earth and all that's within Winnebago's don't have autopilot!